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Not necessarily true at all. ICOs can offer revenue pegged tokens against company future revenue - which is then used to buy back the tokens from the investors.

coolspot 9y ago
But there is nothing that forces such company to actually share the revenue. Tokens are not legally enforcable.
- wyldfire 9y ago
  > Tokens are not legally enforcable I think this is not accurate. It's more likely accurate to state that their use is not tested in courts. But if you could show corporate communications indicating "such and such mechanism will be how we track obligations to shareholders or creditors" and establish that the tokens were not paid back per the operations of the token mechanism, then in all likelihood a court would agree and find evidence of damages and/or criminal wrongdoing. Lawyers strike me as a particularly pedantic crowd (similar to programmers) and I would suppose if pressed about such tokens they'd say "this is a grey area because there's no precedent here yet." But AFAICT intent trumps everything else. If you make a new contract that's not called a contract but smells like a contract and get everyone to agree to it but not write their signature on paper, you have not dodged responsibility. OTOH regulators like SEC might balk and throw their hands up at things like this and claim that they're not securities or that it's out of their scope. But district attorneys, attorneys general -- they probably wouldn't back down from a case like this if it happened to constituents that they think are important enough to stand up for.
  - acdha 9y ago
    At that point, what value is all of this infrastructure adding? It seems like the real guarantees come from having access to a stable court system, well-defined contracts, trusted third parties, etc.
    - Capt-RogerOver 9y ago
      While there is sure some enforceability, like he says, it has to be much harder to do because there is no way these ICOs actually have as much legal text written out and agreed upon by all participants. This has to mean that it will be much easier for dishonest actors to get their wishes with ICOs, as opposed to with regular LTDs and such. More interestingly, there seems to be no real answer for the question you have asked. What is the real value, if the courts and legalities are what people need in this situations, and those things are already in place? Sometimes it really seems like the enthusiasm of most honest people coming into ICOs is fueled by the fact that they don't understand this. They don't comprehend what stocks are really about: making sure that the state can aid in contract enforcing. Think otherwise? Please prove me wrong. There just don't seem to be any real industrial value in ICOs, we already have stock technology.

coolspot 9y ago

But there is nothing that forces such company to actually share the revenue. Tokens are not legally enforcable.

wyldfire 9y ago
> Tokens are not legally enforcable I think this is not accurate. It's more likely accurate to state that their use is not tested in courts. But if you could show corporate communications indicating "such and such mechanism will be how we track obligations to shareholders or creditors" and establish that the tokens were not paid back per the operations of the token mechanism, then in all likelihood a court would agree and find evidence of damages and/or criminal wrongdoing. Lawyers strike me as a particularly pedantic crowd (similar to programmers) and I would suppose if pressed about such tokens they'd say "this is a grey area because there's no precedent here yet." But AFAICT intent trumps everything else. If you make a new contract that's not called a contract but smells like a contract and get everyone to agree to it but not write their signature on paper, you have not dodged responsibility. OTOH regulators like SEC might balk and throw their hands up at things like this and claim that they're not securities or that it's out of their scope. But district attorneys, attorneys general -- they probably wouldn't back down from a case like this if it happened to constituents that they think are important enough to stand up for.
- acdha 9y ago
  At that point, what value is all of this infrastructure adding? It seems like the real guarantees come from having access to a stable court system, well-defined contracts, trusted third parties, etc.
  - Capt-RogerOver 9y ago
    While there is sure some enforceability, like he says, it has to be much harder to do because there is no way these ICOs actually have as much legal text written out and agreed upon by all participants. This has to mean that it will be much easier for dishonest actors to get their wishes with ICOs, as opposed to with regular LTDs and such. More interestingly, there seems to be no real answer for the question you have asked. What is the real value, if the courts and legalities are what people need in this situations, and those things are already in place? Sometimes it really seems like the enthusiasm of most honest people coming into ICOs is fueled by the fact that they don't understand this. They don't comprehend what stocks are really about: making sure that the state can aid in contract enforcing. Think otherwise? Please prove me wrong. There just don't seem to be any real industrial value in ICOs, we already have stock technology.