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This is really counter productive. Silicon Valley's problem isn't going to get better if the media paints the entire place as being hostile to women. That's jus

This is really counter productive. Silicon Valley's problem isn't going to get better if the media paints the entire place as being hostile to women. That's just going to scare them off, and that'll make matters worse. Is intentional sexism endemic in SV? I doubt it. There are clearly some bad apples, but there are bad apples in every industry. Many/most tech companies have at least gone to great lengths to accommodate and recruit women and minorities. Compare that to law, finance, medicine, government, and every other industry dominated by men. Silicon Valley is a great place for women to work, regardless of its problems. The best, and probably only way to fix it is to bring more women in.

readams 9y ago
The vast majority of people in the industry don't do this. But it only takes a few rare individuals to create a situation where almost every woman has at least one experience of it. It's good if we can avoid sweeping these things under the rug. But it's still the case that nearly everyone in the industry is not going to sexually harass women, and it's important to acknowledge this.
s73ver 9y ago
At the same time, sweeping the problem under the rug and pretending it doesn't happen isn't going to fix anything either. At least with this approach, those in charge are pressured to do something about it.
- baron816 9y ago
  I definitely don't think it should be swept under the rug, but I don't think it needs to be broadcast through the mass media for all the world to see and for the entire industry to be condemned as misogynists. This shit is awful and it needs to be dealt with appropriately. If executives don't want to do that, then they should be held accountable too. But I think there's a way to do those things without shaming the 99% people who have nothing to do with any of this.
  - urahara 9y ago
    Not talking about it publicly is very close to sweeping under the rug. Important problems like this one should be discussed publicly as much as possible. This raises awareness and stimulates the search for solutions. Recently, womens' public posts led to real action started to be taken to address the problem. Besides, for many women this public talk is currently the only thing they can do in their defense.
  - s73ver 9y ago
    But they're not shaming us. I don't feel shamed at all by the coverage. I'm not one of the people they're talking about; I know I'm not, so I don't feel upset by the coverage.
    - dropit_sphere 9y ago
      I think they are talking about you, or are at least playing extremely fast and loose with phrasing. Are you part of "Silicon Valley," which "has a culture problem?" Are you one of "the men" in "the workforce"? I don't feel ashamed. But this is, to some degree, slander.
      - s73ver 9y ago
        And I don’t. I know they aren’t talking about me. Because I don’t do those things.
- falcolas 9y ago
  > At least with this approach, those in charge are pressured to do something about it. Personally, I doubt it. The media pressure will disappear in a few months, and short of a very public rape, will not appear again for years. That's how the modern media works - come in while the topic is hot, stick around and fling poo for a month or so, then leave it for something more salacious.
urahara 9y ago
Talking about the problem is healthy and usually a part of a solution. Real-life sexism is definitely worse and times more scary than public attempts to fix it. Bringing more women helps, but if the culture wouldn’t change, they’ll just leave.
- falcolas 9y ago
  Articles like this don't constitute "talking about the problem". It's mud slinging that paints the entire industry poorly. Not to mention, these venues will consider the news to be "ancient history" in a month, leaving nothing but mud stains and hurt feelings (I'm personally tired of being painted as a sexist asshole who "just doesn't get it" because I'm a white male) in its wake. The "discussion" will be over, and nobody will be better off because of it.
  - _jtrig 9y ago
    Good. Feelings need to be hurt. People need to be uncomfortable. Mud slinging is necessary to get people to give a shit and do something.
    - falcolas 9y ago
      Uncomfortable and hurt people are never going to react in a positive way, and expecting otherwise is going to result in disappointment. They'll certainly do something, but most people who care about the issue won't like what is done. They may: Become even more hostile about the subject. Be even less willing to open the ranks to more women. Double down on "it's someone else's problem". Worse, people who currently give a shit and act on that may just... stop. "I support their work and I just get attacked for it, why bother?"
      - _jtrig 9y ago
        Your argument sounds similar to those who opposed the civil rights movement.
      - wcummings 9y ago
facethefacts 9y ago
Let's add more people to the job market to push down the rights/value of workers and solidify the destruction of the family unit while we're at it.
wcummings 9y ago
Denying there is a problem is counter productive...

readams 9y ago

The vast majority of people in the industry don't do this. But it only takes a few rare individuals to create a situation where almost every woman has at least one experience of it. It's good if we can avoid sweeping these things under the rug. But it's still the case that nearly everyone in the industry is not going to sexually harass women, and it's important to acknowledge this.

s73ver 9y ago

At the same time, sweeping the problem under the rug and pretending it doesn't happen isn't going to fix anything either. At least with this approach, those in charge are pressured to do something about it.

baron816 9y ago
I definitely don't think it should be swept under the rug, but I don't think it needs to be broadcast through the mass media for all the world to see and for the entire industry to be condemned as misogynists. This shit is awful and it needs to be dealt with appropriately. If executives don't want to do that, then they should be held accountable too. But I think there's a way to do those things without shaming the 99% people who have nothing to do with any of this.
- urahara 9y ago
  Not talking about it publicly is very close to sweeping under the rug. Important problems like this one should be discussed publicly as much as possible. This raises awareness and stimulates the search for solutions. Recently, womens' public posts led to real action started to be taken to address the problem. Besides, for many women this public talk is currently the only thing they can do in their defense.
- s73ver 9y ago
  But they're not shaming us. I don't feel shamed at all by the coverage. I'm not one of the people they're talking about; I know I'm not, so I don't feel upset by the coverage.
  - dropit_sphere 9y ago
    I think they are talking about you, or are at least playing extremely fast and loose with phrasing. Are you part of "Silicon Valley," which "has a culture problem?" Are you one of "the men" in "the workforce"? I don't feel ashamed. But this is, to some degree, slander.
    - s73ver 9y ago
      And I don’t. I know they aren’t talking about me. Because I don’t do those things.
falcolas 9y ago
> At least with this approach, those in charge are pressured to do something about it. Personally, I doubt it. The media pressure will disappear in a few months, and short of a very public rape, will not appear again for years. That's how the modern media works - come in while the topic is hot, stick around and fling poo for a month or so, then leave it for something more salacious.

urahara 9y ago

Talking about the problem is healthy and usually a part of a solution. Real-life sexism is definitely worse and times more scary than public attempts to fix it. Bringing more women helps, but if the culture wouldn’t change, they’ll just leave.

falcolas 9y ago
Articles like this don't constitute "talking about the problem". It's mud slinging that paints the entire industry poorly. Not to mention, these venues will consider the news to be "ancient history" in a month, leaving nothing but mud stains and hurt feelings (I'm personally tired of being painted as a sexist asshole who "just doesn't get it" because I'm a white male) in its wake. The "discussion" will be over, and nobody will be better off because of it.
- _jtrig 9y ago
  Good. Feelings need to be hurt. People need to be uncomfortable. Mud slinging is necessary to get people to give a shit and do something.
  - falcolas 9y ago
    Uncomfortable and hurt people are never going to react in a positive way, and expecting otherwise is going to result in disappointment. They'll certainly do something, but most people who care about the issue won't like what is done. They may: Become even more hostile about the subject. Be even less willing to open the ranks to more women. Double down on "it's someone else's problem". Worse, people who currently give a shit and act on that may just... stop. "I support their work and I just get attacked for it, why bother?"
    - _jtrig 9y ago
      Your argument sounds similar to those who opposed the civil rights movement.
    - wcummings 9y ago

facethefacts 9y ago

Let's add more people to the job market to push down the rights/value of workers and solidify the destruction of the family unit while we're at it.

wcummings 9y ago

Denying there is a problem is counter productive...