I think you are trying to differentiate between a programmer with 20 years experience and what you call an architect by using titles. Like I said titles are mea

I think you are trying to differentiate between a programmer with 20 years experience and what you call an architect by using titles. Like I said titles are meaningless. A programmer with 20 years experience who can't design a large system isn't a very good programmer. An architect who can't design a large system isn't a very good programmer either. I think we are arguing the same thing, we're just stuck on the semantics of titles. I guess let me put it this way, do you know people who have the title of programmer who are way better at building systems than a guy with the title of architect? Of course. Some companies don't even use the title of architect. That certainly doesn't mean no one in the shop can design a large system. It's not the title, it's the ability, and titles are a horrible way to discern ability. >A programmer with 20 years of experience is definitely worth more than a programmer with 2 years of experience. But not that much more. This is what I took issue with. A (good) programmer with 20 years experience is capable of designing large scale systems, which is much more valuable than a programmer with 2 years experience. Maybe it's just my bias. When I first heard the term "architect," I asked, "what is that?" and the reply was, "someone who designs large systems but doesn't code." I thought to myself "well that's dumb." FWIW, I've had the title of "architect" at various companies since 2008 and I've always coded at least the skeleton of my designs. I mean how else do you know if you're right? When I switched companies in 2010, the new company didn't have the title "architect," so I was just a "senior engineer," until we got acquired. I regained the title "architect" because I made X amount of money. Like I said, meaningless. As a side note, I think coders calling themselves engineers is also incorrect. Engineering is a specific discipline that actually has meaning. It's like Dr. Dre. It sounds good, but I sure ain't going to see him for a rash.