Never liked the idea of karma myself - most people _do_ care about it (particularly in HN or reddit where low karma posts are hidden) so they will either not sp

Never liked the idea of karma myself - most people _do_ care about it (particularly in HN or reddit where low karma posts are hidden) so they will either not speak their mind or parrot some popular opinion to reap rewards. Combine that with a threading model that puts top posts at the top and you pretty much only see popular/echo chamber posts. HN is a bit better because sometimes you get the rare, unpopular opinion that is well-researched and explained so it makes it to the top. IMO the best format for discourse is a traditional imageboard/forum where all posts "weigh" the same. It has negatives (nested quotes, thread derailment that you can't hide) but I prefer it to the HN/reddit model.