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True, but if we are facing massive climate change with unpredictable catastrophic effects then isn't that a good reason to build up as much industrial and milit

True, but if we are facing massive climate change with unpredictable catastrophic effects then isn't that a good reason to build up as much industrial and military capacity as possible to withstand those unpredictable effects? That certainly seems to be what most people are doing even if they are saying something different.

lmm 9y ago
> True, but if we are facing massive climate change with unpredictable catastrophic effects then isn't that a good reason to build up as much industrial and military capacity as possible to withstand those unpredictable effects? No, I don't think so. We have a pretty good idea of what kind of things are going to happen - if we were serious about trying to withstand them we'd be putting more efforts into flood defences, desalination plants, disaster-relief type stuff - and on a longer-term level maybe food-supply work. Even if you believe what's needed is industry, in the long-term the scientific uses of oil and plastics are far more vital than burning it moving people between the office and the suburbs. But no-one really believes at a visceral level that the oil supply is limited, because we've spent our whole lives living with abundant oil. Add in a dose of classic tragedy of the commons - reducing carbon emissions makes things better for everyone, while building up your own economy/industry and ignoring emissions hurts the common cause but is profitable for individual nations.
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
  The parent comment said "build up as much industrial and military capacity as possible to withstand those unpredictable effects". And then you said: "if we were serious about trying to withstand them we'd be putting more efforts into flood defences, desalination plants, disaster-relief" These are the same.
  - lmm 9y ago
    My point is there are specific, narrow things we could be doing; it's not grounds for a general-purpose industrial/military buildup (which frankly sounds suspiciously like an excuse to carry on with business-as-usual rather than doing anything hard).
    - undersuit 9y ago
      >(which frankly sounds suspiciously like an excuse to carry on with business-as-usual rather than doing anything hard). That's what I took from it too. Grab everything we can and dig in.

lmm 9y ago

> True, but if we are facing massive climate change with unpredictable catastrophic effects then isn't that a good reason to build up as much industrial and military capacity as possible to withstand those unpredictable effects? No, I don't think so. We have a pretty good idea of what kind of things are going to happen - if we were serious about trying to withstand them we'd be putting more efforts into flood defences, desalination plants, disaster-relief type stuff - and on a longer-term level maybe food-supply work. Even if you believe what's needed is industry, in the long-term the scientific uses of oil and plastics are far more vital than burning it moving people between the office and the suburbs. But no-one really believes at a visceral level that the oil supply is limited, because we've spent our whole lives living with abundant oil. Add in a dose of classic tragedy of the commons - reducing carbon emissions makes things better for everyone, while building up your own economy/industry and ignoring emissions hurts the common cause but is profitable for individual nations.

TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
The parent comment said "build up as much industrial and military capacity as possible to withstand those unpredictable effects". And then you said: "if we were serious about trying to withstand them we'd be putting more efforts into flood defences, desalination plants, disaster-relief" These are the same.
- lmm 9y ago
  My point is there are specific, narrow things we could be doing; it's not grounds for a general-purpose industrial/military buildup (which frankly sounds suspiciously like an excuse to carry on with business-as-usual rather than doing anything hard).
  - undersuit 9y ago
    >(which frankly sounds suspiciously like an excuse to carry on with business-as-usual rather than doing anything hard). That's what I took from it too. Grab everything we can and dig in.