4 ms·

As a French who migrated off, going to the UK was so easy. I can't begin to imagine the burden a non speaking French person would have to go through to migrate

As a French who migrated off, going to the UK was so easy. I can't begin to imagine the burden a non speaking French person would have to go through to migrate to France.

palunon 9y ago
Note that immigration inside the EU is way easier than with other countries. You don't need a visa, working permit, special bank account (for US citizens, since the bank must report income, etc, to the US gov), your driving license is valid, etc.
- oblio 9y ago
  And immigration to the EU for someone not coming from developed countries is waaaaaaay harder than for someone coming from the US & co.
- user5994461 9y ago
  Not really. You change languages, currency, you need new bank accounts, new health insurance, completely different educational system. All administrations are different. The culture is also a shock. You will never find any of the grocery or shop you used to buy. A French going to the UK is not much different than a Mexican going to the USA. The only advantage is that you don't risk being deported by the police if they don't like you papers. You are effectively allowed to be there by the virtue of being European.
  - ido 9y ago
    That's a huge advantage tho, especially if you don't already have a job offer at hand. In fact if you're not in a well paid/in-demand profession like software dev it is almost impossible to immigrate legally from outside the EU.
  - someSven 9y ago
    What's it with the bank accounts? You can transfer money within the EU without any problems. I pay my rent in Spain from a German bank account. Though, getting wired internet is another thing, these companies seem to ignore European law.
- tobltobs 9y ago
  Not true for France. It might be easier for an EU citizen, but it is still a big waste of time. Getting a bank account still takes at least 3 visits. To hold a working card in your hand will take more then a month. Your driving licence is valid only for a year. And the Social Security nightmare is pretty much the same for everybody. And for the etc. prepare for that every bit will be a hassle.
  - rjsw 9y ago
    I think that the parent comment meant that you can easily use a bank account from another EU country in France. Opening a French bank account isn't complicated either if it is with a multinational bank, I have never been inside a French branch of mine.
    - user5994461 9y ago
      And the parent is mistaking, he's probably American. You cannot use a bank accounts well across EU country. Banks are a very localized service, they provide specific account number formats and payment methods by country. It will be a huge hassle day to day when you want a SEPA transfer and the guy expects a RIB or a sort code. It's worse with UK and Switzerland because they have a different currency. You really need a local bank account or you get bankrupted by the fees and the exchange rate. Incidentally they are the only places where there are the big tech and finance companies to work for. Most banks are national. There are very few banks that have an international presence, with decent service at the offices. The last time I went to a French bank in a different region than where I opened the account, they told me they can't do anything and I have to go to my "home" agency.
      - rjsw 9y ago
        I have UK and French accounts with the same bank. Both work fine for making payments in other EU countries. I can transfer money between them whenever I want (or spot a better exchange rate).
        9y ago
faster 9y ago
I did it in 2013, with a C&T visa and a very weak grasp of the language. It took about 40 hours (mostly standing in various lines) to get my residence card. Some bureaucrats fucked with me because they could, and some were helpful but still followed their own version of the rules. For example, one day photocopies of bills were acceptable for proof of address (but something else was not acceptable) and the very next day, only the original bill would be accepted. My daughter is fluent in French and she went with me to the prefecture once. She told me that the woman behind the glass was super rude, even though she put on a smile and pretended to be helpful. In fact, the next time I made it through the line there and explained what documents I had and why, the guy went to that woman's counter and chewed her out for being malicious (she had written a partial list of required docs instead of handing me the official complete-ish pre-printed list), and apologized to me for her behavior. Then he rejected my paperwork for a reason that was not documented anywhere. Catch-22s are everywhere; you can't open a bank account without proof of address, but you can't rent a place without a local bank account. It's the same for just about everything important. We had some French friends who cosigned for our apartment so we could get past that, and we were VERY fortunate to have friends who were willing to do that for us. A few people told me that everyone knows someone who can make fake paperwork; you just can't follow all the rules. C'est impossible! However, I would say that living in France was a fantastic experience, and I wish I had done it 10 years earlier.
- graniter 9y ago
  For the proof of residence, an option nowadays is to book a place long term on airbnb, say 6 months or more, and then put the utilities in your name. Even just one utility may be enough, like water or electricity, maybe even internet too. Then you can use the utility bill as proof of address without needing to sign a formal rental agreement. Note that most governmental places will not accept an AirBnB receipt as proof of address, but a bank might. Keep bills of everything. Always have copies of everything on hand (passports, work contract, birth certificates, visas, bills) and keep electronic copies that you can print off any time.
  - gcb0 9y ago
    don't do airbnb. for longer than 30 days there are hundreds of real state places that find much better place for half the airbnb price. absolutely everyone will speak fluent English (differently from airbnb). only downside is a deposit like any other rent
antod 9y ago
Heh, I work with a couple of Frenchmen (in NZ) and they always get a good chuckle when they hear Kiwis complain about UK bureaucracy :)

As a French who migrated off, going to the UK was so easy. I can't begin to imagine the burden a non speaking French person would have to go through to migrate to France.

palunon 9y ago

Note that immigration inside the EU is way easier than with other countries. You don't need a visa, working permit, special bank account (for US citizens, since the bank must report income, etc, to the US gov), your driving license is valid, etc.

oblio 9y ago
And immigration to the EU for someone not coming from developed countries is waaaaaaay harder than for someone coming from the US & co.
user5994461 9y ago
Not really. You change languages, currency, you need new bank accounts, new health insurance, completely different educational system. All administrations are different. The culture is also a shock. You will never find any of the grocery or shop you used to buy. A French going to the UK is not much different than a Mexican going to the USA. The only advantage is that you don't risk being deported by the police if they don't like you papers. You are effectively allowed to be there by the virtue of being European.
- ido 9y ago
  That's a huge advantage tho, especially if you don't already have a job offer at hand. In fact if you're not in a well paid/in-demand profession like software dev it is almost impossible to immigrate legally from outside the EU.
- someSven 9y ago
  What's it with the bank accounts? You can transfer money within the EU without any problems. I pay my rent in Spain from a German bank account. Though, getting wired internet is another thing, these companies seem to ignore European law.
tobltobs 9y ago
Not true for France. It might be easier for an EU citizen, but it is still a big waste of time. Getting a bank account still takes at least 3 visits. To hold a working card in your hand will take more then a month. Your driving licence is valid only for a year. And the Social Security nightmare is pretty much the same for everybody. And for the etc. prepare for that every bit will be a hassle.
- rjsw 9y ago
  I think that the parent comment meant that you can easily use a bank account from another EU country in France. Opening a French bank account isn't complicated either if it is with a multinational bank, I have never been inside a French branch of mine.
  - user5994461 9y ago
    And the parent is mistaking, he's probably American. You cannot use a bank accounts well across EU country. Banks are a very localized service, they provide specific account number formats and payment methods by country. It will be a huge hassle day to day when you want a SEPA transfer and the guy expects a RIB or a sort code. It's worse with UK and Switzerland because they have a different currency. You really need a local bank account or you get bankrupted by the fees and the exchange rate. Incidentally they are the only places where there are the big tech and finance companies to work for. Most banks are national. There are very few banks that have an international presence, with decent service at the offices. The last time I went to a French bank in a different region than where I opened the account, they told me they can't do anything and I have to go to my "home" agency.
    - rjsw 9y ago
      I have UK and French accounts with the same bank. Both work fine for making payments in other EU countries. I can transfer money between them whenever I want (or spot a better exchange rate).
      - 9y ago

faster 9y ago

I did it in 2013, with a C&T visa and a very weak grasp of the language. It took about 40 hours (mostly standing in various lines) to get my residence card. Some bureaucrats fucked with me because they could, and some were helpful but still followed their own version of the rules. For example, one day photocopies of bills were acceptable for proof of address (but something else was not acceptable) and the very next day, only the original bill would be accepted. My daughter is fluent in French and she went with me to the prefecture once. She told me that the woman behind the glass was super rude, even though she put on a smile and pretended to be helpful. In fact, the next time I made it through the line there and explained what documents I had and why, the guy went to that woman's counter and chewed her out for being malicious (she had written a partial list of required docs instead of handing me the official complete-ish pre-printed list), and apologized to me for her behavior. Then he rejected my paperwork for a reason that was not documented anywhere. Catch-22s are everywhere; you can't open a bank account without proof of address, but you can't rent a place without a local bank account. It's the same for just about everything important. We had some French friends who cosigned for our apartment so we could get past that, and we were VERY fortunate to have friends who were willing to do that for us. A few people told me that everyone knows someone who can make fake paperwork; you just can't follow all the rules. C'est impossible! However, I would say that living in France was a fantastic experience, and I wish I had done it 10 years earlier.

graniter 9y ago
For the proof of residence, an option nowadays is to book a place long term on airbnb, say 6 months or more, and then put the utilities in your name. Even just one utility may be enough, like water or electricity, maybe even internet too. Then you can use the utility bill as proof of address without needing to sign a formal rental agreement. Note that most governmental places will not accept an AirBnB receipt as proof of address, but a bank might. Keep bills of everything. Always have copies of everything on hand (passports, work contract, birth certificates, visas, bills) and keep electronic copies that you can print off any time.
- gcb0 9y ago
  don't do airbnb. for longer than 30 days there are hundreds of real state places that find much better place for half the airbnb price. absolutely everyone will speak fluent English (differently from airbnb). only downside is a deposit like any other rent

antod 9y ago

Heh, I work with a couple of Frenchmen (in NZ) and they always get a good chuckle when they hear Kiwis complain about UK bureaucracy :)