5 ms·

Do you mean we end up with a labeled chip whose insides are something completely different, and so won't ever work? Surely that doesn't happen this way. It must

by jfries 9y ago

Do you mean we end up with a labeled chip whose insides are something completely different, and so won't ever work? Surely that doesn't happen this way. It must be many times cheaper to just buy empty packages than to clean up old ones?

kw71 9y ago
Yes there are known instances of parts being remarked as something completely unrelated.
speedplane 9y ago
It definitely happens. I suspect they do it this way rather than manufacture empty packages because there are a huge variety of chips out there with an equally diverse set of package designs. It's easier to pay unskilled laborers to sort chips into 200 different groups based on size, color, and pin count than to build a machine to replicate 200 different package types.
- qb45 9y ago
  > manufacture empty packages That's the crux. You don't buy mass-produced empty packages to put the parts in. Packaging happens by putting the IC die, pins and bonding wires which connect them together inside a mold and filling it with plastic. It's probably cheaper and certainly lower-tech to replace markings on existing chip than produce a new one.
honestoHeminway 9y ago
The worst part actually is, when those chips are the correct ones- but have been used and have all the wear. Means, you have them baked on and off board, slight overcurrent damages, wear on internal flash and Elektromigration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration And this chip is integrated into your new device. The only way to avoid this, would be a standard start of life vault, that is writeable once with the date and burns of the pathway to to re-write after that.
- anticodon 9y ago
  Please, no. Manufacturers will use this to force selling us new equipment every 2-3 years. It's a very bad solution.
  - honestoHeminway 9y ago
    Manufactureres force you allready to buy new equipment 2-3years, by placing codensators near heatsources and other nice tricks (including the famous printer counter).
    - fapjacks 9y ago
      Hi there, I'm very interested in your comment. Do you have a link where I could read more about the techniques you've discussed as they pertain to forced obsolescence? Thanks!
      - honestoHeminway 9y ago
        I have no direkt link, i just had - lets say a lesson at my university where one the teachers (who shall not be named) mentioned that there is a pretty exact science of statistically averaging the livetime of a capacitator with the heat it experiences during the devices operation. So if you want to extend a devices life, you can desolder some condensators and put them in areas of good Cooling.
        honestoHeminway 9y ago
        http://jianghai-america.com/uploads/technology/JIANGHAI_Elcap_Lifetime_-_Estimation_AAL.pdf http://jianghai-america.com/uploads/technology/JIANGHAI_Elca... http://www.cde.com/resources/catalogs/AEappGUIDE.pdf http://www.cde.com/resources/catalogs/AEappGUIDE.pdf
    - raverbashing 9y ago
      "by placing codensators near heatsources" Oh you mean like every power source is designed today? There are several engineering reasons to do that, they don't do that to spite people And it's called capacitor (in the XXI century at least)
joshvm 9y ago
There are more incipient problems. We've recently had an issue where some CCDs - readily available from China - work just as they're supposed to, but have some weird surface coating that causes interference effects. The up to date models, bought from a reputable distributor (e.g. Digikey et al) seem to work fine and look physically different. It's not clear whether the ones you can buy on eBay or Aliexpress are simply older models (and the manufacturer then removed this coating), or are actually knock-offs. We have no way of really knowing. It was a good lesson: most of the time it's just not worth it especially if you're not chasing pennies on your product margin.

by jfries 9y ago

kw71 9y ago

Yes there are known instances of parts being remarked as something completely unrelated.

speedplane 9y ago

It definitely happens. I suspect they do it this way rather than manufacture empty packages because there are a huge variety of chips out there with an equally diverse set of package designs. It's easier to pay unskilled laborers to sort chips into 200 different groups based on size, color, and pin count than to build a machine to replicate 200 different package types.

qb45 9y ago
> manufacture empty packages That's the crux. You don't buy mass-produced empty packages to put the parts in. Packaging happens by putting the IC die, pins and bonding wires which connect them together inside a mold and filling it with plastic. It's probably cheaper and certainly lower-tech to replace markings on existing chip than produce a new one.

honestoHeminway 9y ago

The worst part actually is, when those chips are the correct ones- but have been used and have all the wear. Means, you have them baked on and off board, slight overcurrent damages, wear on internal flash and Elektromigration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration And this chip is integrated into your new device. The only way to avoid this, would be a standard start of life vault, that is writeable once with the date and burns of the pathway to to re-write after that.

anticodon 9y ago
Please, no. Manufacturers will use this to force selling us new equipment every 2-3 years. It's a very bad solution.
- honestoHeminway 9y ago
  Manufactureres force you allready to buy new equipment 2-3years, by placing codensators near heatsources and other nice tricks (including the famous printer counter).
  - fapjacks 9y ago
    Hi there, I'm very interested in your comment. Do you have a link where I could read more about the techniques you've discussed as they pertain to forced obsolescence? Thanks!
    - honestoHeminway 9y ago
      I have no direkt link, i just had - lets say a lesson at my university where one the teachers (who shall not be named) mentioned that there is a pretty exact science of statistically averaging the livetime of a capacitator with the heat it experiences during the devices operation. So if you want to extend a devices life, you can desolder some condensators and put them in areas of good Cooling.
      - honestoHeminway 9y ago
        http://jianghai-america.com/uploads/technology/JIANGHAI_Elcap_Lifetime_-_Estimation_AAL.pdf http://jianghai-america.com/uploads/technology/JIANGHAI_Elca... http://www.cde.com/resources/catalogs/AEappGUIDE.pdf http://www.cde.com/resources/catalogs/AEappGUIDE.pdf
  - raverbashing 9y ago
    "by placing codensators near heatsources" Oh you mean like every power source is designed today? There are several engineering reasons to do that, they don't do that to spite people And it's called capacitor (in the XXI century at least)

joshvm 9y ago

There are more incipient problems. We've recently had an issue where some CCDs - readily available from China - work just as they're supposed to, but have some weird surface coating that causes interference effects. The up to date models, bought from a reputable distributor (e.g. Digikey et al) seem to work fine and look physically different. It's not clear whether the ones you can buy on eBay or Aliexpress are simply older models (and the manufacturer then removed this coating), or are actually knock-offs. We have no way of really knowing. It was a good lesson: most of the time it's just not worth it especially if you're not chasing pennies on your product margin.