3 ms·

Government officials DO CARE about ABET. In one of my part lives as an electrical engineer for the Department of Defense, one of the requirements for the positi

Government officials DO CARE about ABET. In one of my part lives as an electrical engineer for the Department of Defense, one of the requirements for the position was an engineering degree from an ABET accredited University. I could not have been hired if I had not had a degree from an ABET accredited University. On the program I work as a contractor on now, the government manager is still a little bitter that he cannot be classified as an engineer because he does not have an ABET accredited Bachelor's Degree (he has a Master's in Systems Engineering, but his BS is in Economics).

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
rsj_hn 9y ago
We are talking about software engineering, not electrical engineering. The topic is whether programmers would benefit from taking an ethics class, and the original poster of this thread said "ABET says you should take it, so yes, in the U.S. it's required", and I said "Who the hell cares about ABET". A reply to this has to be some software engineering department that cares. I know other people in other industries care. But computer science, despite the fact that some call ourselves software engineers, is not accredited like a branch of engineering, and the only reason why ABET is involved in this discussion is marketing, as some people really want to pretend that programming is just another engineering discipline, when really it is a craft, and others on the certifying side really want those fees. So saying, "Hey my uncle was a doctor and he couldn't practice if he wasn't approve by the AMA, therefore programmers have to learn what AMA guidelines suggest -- it's crazy"
- com2kid 9y ago
  > "ABET says you should take it, so yes, in the U.S. it's required" OK so I should have said "Is a required course in a large number of US universities." > and the only reason why ABET is involved in this discussion is marketing, as some people really want to pretend that programming is just another engineering discipline, when really it is a craft, and others on the certifying side really want those fees. Students want some assurances that their department has an external body maintaining quality standards. For large research universities, less of a problem, "Do findings from the department make front page news?" is a pretty good qualifier. I had a friend of mine in a non-ABET program who was upset that his degree didn't even require math beyond basic trig, arguments about calculus in CS programs aside, hiring companies knew that CS degrees from my friend's University didn't come with the same level of math and science as CS degrees from other universities. Of course this entire thread is about the lack of ethics courses in CS programs, and ABET requires ethics in the curriculum. At some point ABET can't be called completely useless, since they are imposing onto CS programs a class that people seem to generally agree should be present.
  - rsj_hn 9y ago
    Name one university that requires an ethics class in order to get a CS degree.
  - rsj_hn 9y ago
    > Students want some assurances that their department has an external body maintaining quality standards. Yes, marketing. That makes sense. But the fact that a student may want some guarantees that their CS degree is a good degree doesn't mean that ABET can step in and fill that role. The sad truth is that unless you are from a top tier school, your degree doesn't mean a whole lot, but your resume does. If you are from a top tier school, then no one is going to ask about ABET, if you aren't from a top tier school, then no employer is going to ask about ABET, they will think "OK, a CS graduate from a no-name school".

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

rsj_hn 9y ago

We are talking about software engineering, not electrical engineering. The topic is whether programmers would benefit from taking an ethics class, and the original poster of this thread said "ABET says you should take it, so yes, in the U.S. it's required", and I said "Who the hell cares about ABET". A reply to this has to be some software engineering department that cares. I know other people in other industries care. But computer science, despite the fact that some call ourselves software engineers, is not accredited like a branch of engineering, and the only reason why ABET is involved in this discussion is marketing, as some people really want to pretend that programming is just another engineering discipline, when really it is a craft, and others on the certifying side really want those fees. So saying, "Hey my uncle was a doctor and he couldn't practice if he wasn't approve by the AMA, therefore programmers have to learn what AMA guidelines suggest -- it's crazy"

com2kid 9y ago
> "ABET says you should take it, so yes, in the U.S. it's required" OK so I should have said "Is a required course in a large number of US universities." > and the only reason why ABET is involved in this discussion is marketing, as some people really want to pretend that programming is just another engineering discipline, when really it is a craft, and others on the certifying side really want those fees. Students want some assurances that their department has an external body maintaining quality standards. For large research universities, less of a problem, "Do findings from the department make front page news?" is a pretty good qualifier. I had a friend of mine in a non-ABET program who was upset that his degree didn't even require math beyond basic trig, arguments about calculus in CS programs aside, hiring companies knew that CS degrees from my friend's University didn't come with the same level of math and science as CS degrees from other universities. Of course this entire thread is about the lack of ethics courses in CS programs, and ABET requires ethics in the curriculum. At some point ABET can't be called completely useless, since they are imposing onto CS programs a class that people seem to generally agree should be present.
- rsj_hn 9y ago
  Name one university that requires an ethics class in order to get a CS degree.
- rsj_hn 9y ago
  > Students want some assurances that their department has an external body maintaining quality standards. Yes, marketing. That makes sense. But the fact that a student may want some guarantees that their CS degree is a good degree doesn't mean that ABET can step in and fill that role. The sad truth is that unless you are from a top tier school, your degree doesn't mean a whole lot, but your resume does. If you are from a top tier school, then no one is going to ask about ABET, if you aren't from a top tier school, then no employer is going to ask about ABET, they will think "OK, a CS graduate from a no-name school".