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Cool to see a VCMI developer here. I'm the creator of Project Ironfist, the Heroes 2 mod that works by some seriously cool binary modification tech (www.ironfi.

Cool to see a VCMI developer here. I'm the creator of Project Ironfist, the Heroes 2 mod that works by some seriously cool binary modification tech (www.ironfi.st).

SXX 9y ago
That's neat art on here, but might be you should at least add link to github on website. Also I unsure whatever one can actually apply free license on reverse engineered code, but at least some licensing information would be expected. One question, why wasn't it built on top of Free Heroes 2? Though I suppose for the same reasons why some people preferred to work on ERA / WoG / HotA instead of rewriting engine from scratch.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- Darmani 9y ago
  Exactly as you said. It's a lot easier to make something better than the original game when you start with the original game, instead of trying to get a million subtle things right. Also, developing on fheroes2 is not necessarily easier. Our tech lets us mod the game almost as easily as if we had the original code.
  - SXX 9y ago
    I think it's depend on goals. I started contribute to VCMI because I wanted seamless maps, more layers than two, simultaneous turns, advanced path finding and smarter AI. All of it is very hard to implement with reverse engineering if possible at all. Of course there are some very talented programmers who able to achieve almost anything, but it's nearly impossible to get external contributors into project like that and if main developers lose interest there usually no one to continue their work.
    - Darmani 9y ago
      Totally. Although, I think you underestimate just what you can do with modding; some of the things you mentioned sound like they would be about as easy to do in Ironfist as in a rewrite. Here's one way to put it: the amount of programming work that has gone into fheroes2 is several times that of Ironfist. Because of our approach as a mod instead of a rewrite, in a lot of ways, we are far ahead of them. Everyone wants a rewrite. Sometimes, you have to ask how many resources you have. (On a different note, from my last few investigations, there's a lot that I don't like about the fheroes2 codebase which provide independent reasons for not using it. Rewrites are not created equal. Apologies to any fheroes2 devs reading this.)
      - SXX 9y ago
        It's not like I underestimate modding, but I just try to not overestimate my own abilities. Reverse engineering require significantly higher programming skills or ability to learn and a lot of time. Even in that case most of attempts to get something to playable state end up with nothing simply because there are rarely more than one expert who want to work on the same project. With code created from scratch there is better chance someone else could continue the work if it's wasn't completed by original author.
        Darmani 9y ago
        Got it, except.....doing something like VCMI in some ways requires more reverse engineering. I'm confused. Maybe explain your reasoning in more detail?
        SXX 9y ago
        Sorry for delayed answer, but hopefully you'll still read it. I do agree that on some stage VCMI required plenty of reverse engineering, but even in this case developer who work on clean reimplementation don't really have to understand how original game worked. Of course you need to know how to read original assets formats, but that's all about it. Also any developer who join project after some initial stage could simply don't care about any limitations original game code had. Like I personally use H3 a lot as reference, but I never ever needed to go into IDA or check assembly listing. I suppose you can have completely different view on that because you're expert, but for overall person who just starting to do C++ coding it's all looks extremely scary. Even now when I understand it's just require a lot of learning and motivation I simply can't justify do such investment.
malkia 9y ago
Thank you for sharing! Occasionally I replay Heroes 1, then 2, then back on 3 random maps. Never tried seriously WOG, or the other expansions.
malkia 9y ago
Thank you for sharing! Occasionally I replay Heroes 1, then 2, then back on 3 random maps. Never tried seriously WOG, or the other expansions.

Cool to see a VCMI developer here. I'm the creator of Project Ironfist, the Heroes 2 mod that works by some seriously cool binary modification tech (www.ironfi.st).

SXX 9y ago

That's neat art on here, but might be you should at least add link to github on website. Also I unsure whatever one can actually apply free license on reverse engineered code, but at least some licensing information would be expected. One question, why wasn't it built on top of Free Heroes 2? Though I suppose for the same reasons why some people preferred to work on ERA / WoG / HotA instead of rewriting engine from scratch.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
Darmani 9y ago
Exactly as you said. It's a lot easier to make something better than the original game when you start with the original game, instead of trying to get a million subtle things right. Also, developing on fheroes2 is not necessarily easier. Our tech lets us mod the game almost as easily as if we had the original code.
- SXX 9y ago
  I think it's depend on goals. I started contribute to VCMI because I wanted seamless maps, more layers than two, simultaneous turns, advanced path finding and smarter AI. All of it is very hard to implement with reverse engineering if possible at all. Of course there are some very talented programmers who able to achieve almost anything, but it's nearly impossible to get external contributors into project like that and if main developers lose interest there usually no one to continue their work.
  - Darmani 9y ago
    Totally. Although, I think you underestimate just what you can do with modding; some of the things you mentioned sound like they would be about as easy to do in Ironfist as in a rewrite. Here's one way to put it: the amount of programming work that has gone into fheroes2 is several times that of Ironfist. Because of our approach as a mod instead of a rewrite, in a lot of ways, we are far ahead of them. Everyone wants a rewrite. Sometimes, you have to ask how many resources you have. (On a different note, from my last few investigations, there's a lot that I don't like about the fheroes2 codebase which provide independent reasons for not using it. Rewrites are not created equal. Apologies to any fheroes2 devs reading this.)
    - SXX 9y ago
      It's not like I underestimate modding, but I just try to not overestimate my own abilities. Reverse engineering require significantly higher programming skills or ability to learn and a lot of time. Even in that case most of attempts to get something to playable state end up with nothing simply because there are rarely more than one expert who want to work on the same project. With code created from scratch there is better chance someone else could continue the work if it's wasn't completed by original author.
      - Darmani 9y ago
        Got it, except.....doing something like VCMI in some ways requires more reverse engineering. I'm confused. Maybe explain your reasoning in more detail?
        SXX 9y ago
        Sorry for delayed answer, but hopefully you'll still read it. I do agree that on some stage VCMI required plenty of reverse engineering, but even in this case developer who work on clean reimplementation don't really have to understand how original game worked. Of course you need to know how to read original assets formats, but that's all about it. Also any developer who join project after some initial stage could simply don't care about any limitations original game code had. Like I personally use H3 a lot as reference, but I never ever needed to go into IDA or check assembly listing. I suppose you can have completely different view on that because you're expert, but for overall person who just starting to do C++ coding it's all looks extremely scary. Even now when I understand it's just require a lot of learning and motivation I simply can't justify do such investment.

malkia 9y ago

Thank you for sharing! Occasionally I replay Heroes 1, then 2, then back on 3 random maps. Never tried seriously WOG, or the other expansions.

malkia 9y ago

Thank you for sharing! Occasionally I replay Heroes 1, then 2, then back on 3 random maps. Never tried seriously WOG, or the other expansions.