4 ms·

sigh - why oh why can't they support Windows XP? 80% of the customers using our web application are still on Windows XP (some even on NT4...) and seing how cons

by pilif 16y ago

sigh - why oh why can't they support Windows XP? 80% of the customers using our web application are still on Windows XP (some even on NT4...) and seing how conservative these companies are, I have my doubts that they'll ever upgrade. Now if we could have a working IE without hardware acceleration that runs under XP, that would be wonderful. I do have some hopes for Google Chrome Frame's MSI installer though - to support a barcode scanner, we already have to force our users to install Java, so there's at least some hope with GCF. As it stands now, 20% of our development time is wasted on making stuff work on IE 5.5 (!) and 6

antidaily 16y ago
I don't see that in the article. Where does it say it won't run on XP? edit: says it here - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/17/ie9_no_windows_xp/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/17/ie9_no_windows_xp/ wow, that stinks!
fname 16y ago
why oh why can't they support Windows XP? Why should they? New features and updates only available to newer operating systems, drive upgrades! Makes perfect sense to me, especially considering XP support won't be around forever. As it stands now, 20% of our development time is wasted on making stuff work on IE 5.5 (!) and 6 I'm not following... If it's a waste of time, why are you doing it? Drop support for those browsers in that case. Unless, of course, customers using those browsers make up a significant percentage of use, it doesn't sound like much of a waste to me.
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  > it doesn't sound like much of a waste to me. Maybe not in an economic sense, but many people consider it frustrating to spend hours and hours on something that wouldn't need to be done if just someone else would act.
  - fname 16y ago
    if just someone else would act Which someone would that be? Microsoft or the Corporate IT folks reluctant to upgrade* ? * Due to some internal app that only works on IE6.
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
    - eli 16y ago
      I still don't understand why MS didn't build a full IE6 rendering engine into IE8 that could be turned on site-by-site. Maybe too hard with all the ActiveX dependencies?
      - steveklabnik 16y ago
        It's like reverse Chrome Frame! I like it.
- eli 16y ago
  XP support won't be around forever. You're not kidding. Windows 7 SP1 is currently in beta. Once it ships, you will no longer be able to downgrade Win 7 to XP, which is going to make it extremely difficult to legally buy a new XP license.
  - xpaulbettsx 16y ago
    Why won't you be able to downgrade? Afaik, there's no technical reason (and my day job is working on said SP)
    - pilif 16y ago
      He was talking about converting a 7 or Vista license into an XP one which is AFAIK the only way how you can still acquire an xp license if you are not a hardware manufacturer needing it for a netbook
      - josefresco 16y ago
        I can't imagine the legacy hardware/software hell that would require a downgrade from Windows 7 (soon to be SP1) to XP.
- pilif 16y ago
  It is a waste of time because we could do 20% more features in the time we waste to support a now 10 years old and soon unsupported software configuration. In the end other end users with better browsers suffer in that they cannot get the full amount of theoretically possible features (we are a small company with limited resources) and our customers suffer because the have to pay more and wait longer because their customers (our end users) in turn are stuck in the past.
  - fname 16y ago
    Then draw a line in the sand. Decide whether it's better to alienate your IE5 and IE6 users so you can get the newer features into your customers' hands faster.
robin_reala 16y ago
If your customers are sticking with IE5.5 and IE6 they won’t upgrade to IE9 regardless of XP compatibility or not. Require Chrome Frame or a different XP-compatible modern browser as part of your system requirements and that should sort the majority of your clients.
- pilif 16y ago
  Well. We do have quite many users that upgraded to ie7 lately. And a small minority that went to 8, but both browsers are still far away from what you can do with all other browsers currently out there. But yeah. Google Chrome frame is really interesting once the MSI installation becomes possible or they find a way around requiring admin rights for the installation (unlikely)
akmiller 16y ago
Why do people think it is unreasonable to not support a nearly 10 year old Operating System? Safari 5 is not going to run on OS X 10.1 and in all honesty why would anyone expect it to?
- pilif 16y ago
  I don't think it's unreasonable. Quite to the contrary. It's just that a significant share of our end users are running outdated software, so our customers and thus we have to support it.
- spicyj 16y ago
  Actually, Safari 5 doesn't even run on 10.4, which was the newest operating system until Leopard came out 2.5 years ago. By that measure, Apple's doing worse than Microsoft. (Although, Apple still supports XP in Safari 5.)
  - alanh 16y ago
    ha! I think the parenthetical part of your statement is actually the most interesting. After all, not many people are left on 10.4, and 10.5 runs on all the hardware that 10.4 does (not so with 7 and XP).
- alanh 16y ago
  Because 62% [1] of Windows users are still on Windows XP. And these people bought computers; they didn't rent them. It at least feels like Microsoft's duty to herd as many of these people to the modern web stack as possible. OS X, on the other hand -- virtually everyone is on Snow Leopard or Leopard by now, with a few stragglers on 10.4 Tiger. No one is on 10.1, or even 10.3, anymore. [1] Part of the difference in the upgrade curves can be attributed to the legendary way Windows bloats and requires beefier hardware with each release (possibly excepting Vista → 7), the fact that Apple only needs to release OSes for its own hardware, the much cheaper and simpler (one version) OS upgrades on the Mac side of the fence, and frankly the anti-consumer DRM/validation tactics of Microsoft that make people fear updates. Apple makes no attempt to stop end users "sharing" or outright pirating OS updates — in part because everyone already bought hardware, but mostly, I suspect, because it's extremely beneficial to the (developer) ecosystem. [1]: http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10 http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-shar...

by pilif 16y ago

antidaily 16y ago

I don't see that in the article. Where does it say it won't run on XP? edit: says it here - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/17/ie9_no_windows_xp/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/17/ie9_no_windows_xp/ wow, that stinks!

fname 16y ago

why oh why can't they support Windows XP? Why should they? New features and updates only available to newer operating systems, drive upgrades! Makes perfect sense to me, especially considering XP support won't be around forever. As it stands now, 20% of our development time is wasted on making stuff work on IE 5.5 (!) and 6 I'm not following... If it's a waste of time, why are you doing it? Drop support for those browsers in that case. Unless, of course, customers using those browsers make up a significant percentage of use, it doesn't sound like much of a waste to me.

steveklabnik 16y ago
> it doesn't sound like much of a waste to me. Maybe not in an economic sense, but many people consider it frustrating to spend hours and hours on something that wouldn't need to be done if just someone else would act.
- fname 16y ago
  if just someone else would act Which someone would that be? Microsoft or the Corporate IT folks reluctant to upgrade* ? * Due to some internal app that only works on IE6.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - eli 16y ago
    I still don't understand why MS didn't build a full IE6 rendering engine into IE8 that could be turned on site-by-site. Maybe too hard with all the ActiveX dependencies?
    - steveklabnik 16y ago
      It's like reverse Chrome Frame! I like it.
eli 16y ago
XP support won't be around forever. You're not kidding. Windows 7 SP1 is currently in beta. Once it ships, you will no longer be able to downgrade Win 7 to XP, which is going to make it extremely difficult to legally buy a new XP license.
- xpaulbettsx 16y ago
  Why won't you be able to downgrade? Afaik, there's no technical reason (and my day job is working on said SP)
  - pilif 16y ago
    He was talking about converting a 7 or Vista license into an XP one which is AFAIK the only way how you can still acquire an xp license if you are not a hardware manufacturer needing it for a netbook
    - josefresco 16y ago
      I can't imagine the legacy hardware/software hell that would require a downgrade from Windows 7 (soon to be SP1) to XP.
pilif 16y ago
It is a waste of time because we could do 20% more features in the time we waste to support a now 10 years old and soon unsupported software configuration. In the end other end users with better browsers suffer in that they cannot get the full amount of theoretically possible features (we are a small company with limited resources) and our customers suffer because the have to pay more and wait longer because their customers (our end users) in turn are stuck in the past.
- fname 16y ago
  Then draw a line in the sand. Decide whether it's better to alienate your IE5 and IE6 users so you can get the newer features into your customers' hands faster.

robin_reala 16y ago

If your customers are sticking with IE5.5 and IE6 they won’t upgrade to IE9 regardless of XP compatibility or not. Require Chrome Frame or a different XP-compatible modern browser as part of your system requirements and that should sort the majority of your clients.

pilif 16y ago
Well. We do have quite many users that upgraded to ie7 lately. And a small minority that went to 8, but both browsers are still far away from what you can do with all other browsers currently out there. But yeah. Google Chrome frame is really interesting once the MSI installation becomes possible or they find a way around requiring admin rights for the installation (unlikely)

akmiller 16y ago

Why do people think it is unreasonable to not support a nearly 10 year old Operating System? Safari 5 is not going to run on OS X 10.1 and in all honesty why would anyone expect it to?

pilif 16y ago
I don't think it's unreasonable. Quite to the contrary. It's just that a significant share of our end users are running outdated software, so our customers and thus we have to support it.
spicyj 16y ago
Actually, Safari 5 doesn't even run on 10.4, which was the newest operating system until Leopard came out 2.5 years ago. By that measure, Apple's doing worse than Microsoft. (Although, Apple still supports XP in Safari 5.)
- alanh 16y ago
  ha! I think the parenthetical part of your statement is actually the most interesting. After all, not many people are left on 10.4, and 10.5 runs on all the hardware that 10.4 does (not so with 7 and XP).
alanh 16y ago
Because 62% [1] of Windows users are still on Windows XP. And these people bought computers; they didn't rent them. It at least feels like Microsoft's duty to herd as many of these people to the modern web stack as possible. OS X, on the other hand -- virtually everyone is on Snow Leopard or Leopard by now, with a few stragglers on 10.4 Tiger. No one is on 10.1, or even 10.3, anymore. [1] Part of the difference in the upgrade curves can be attributed to the legendary way Windows bloats and requires beefier hardware with each release (possibly excepting Vista → 7), the fact that Apple only needs to release OSes for its own hardware, the much cheaper and simpler (one version) OS upgrades on the Mac side of the fence, and frankly the anti-consumer DRM/validation tactics of Microsoft that make people fear updates. Apple makes no attempt to stop end users "sharing" or outright pirating OS updates — in part because everyone already bought hardware, but mostly, I suspect, because it's extremely beneficial to the (developer) ecosystem. [1]: http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10 http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-shar...