6 ms·

It's going to be a tough battle if they want to win my heart away from i3.

modin 9y ago
I feel the same way, although Wayland is a good perk. Will check it out.
farresito 9y ago
Fear not, friend. There's a very active port of i3 to wayland: https://github.com/SirCmpwn/sway https://github.com/SirCmpwn/sway I haven't personally tried it, but I have heard about it a few times, so I assume it's fairly good. This is the list of supported features, if you are interested: https://github.com/SirCmpwn/sway/issues/2 https://github.com/SirCmpwn/sway/issues/2
- mort96 9y ago
  The problem for me is that i3 is only a part of the puzzle. I use sxhkd for a bunch of hotkeys; that has to be replaced. I use xdotool _a lot_, and I don't know if such functionality is even possible in wayland. I use scoot heavily, both as a way to screenshot from a hotkey (presumably easy to replace?) and as part of scripts; my script which locks the computer uses scrot, imagemagick and i3lock. There's probably a bunch of other small things in my system which will break by not having an X server too.
  - TokenDiversity 9y ago
    You sound like someone who'd like keynav http://www.semicomplete.com/projects/keynav http://www.semicomplete.com/projects/keynav
    - yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
      Since it wasn't linked last time I looked, code is also at https://github.com/jordansissel/keynav https://github.com/jordansissel/keynav Shameless plug: I maintain a fork at https://github.com/yjftsjthsd-g/keynav https://github.com/yjftsjthsd-g/keynav because the original author hasn't been active in a while. Edit: wrong link :)
      - TokenDiversity 9y ago
        Not so shameless if you add a scroll functionality I tell you lol. Actually even otherwise, it's not like you're earning money so no need to disclaim!
        yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
        Hm. That would be useful. I might have to do that.
        yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
        Heh, so I went to look and see how hard it would be to simulate mouse scrolling, and the answer is... none. Literally none. Because X11 "mouse scroll" events are represented as button presses. Mouse buttons are 1=left, 2=middle, 3=right, 4=scroll-up, 5=scroll-down. So you just stick the relevant lines in your keynavrc; ex. i click 4 e click 5 That said, I may make an effort to document this better.
        TokenDiversity 9y ago
        I saw, I came here to thank and noticed you replied :)
      - mort96 9y ago
        That looks pretty interesting. stole the idea and made something similar in bash: https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/master/bin/mousetree https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/master/bin/mousetree, with hotkeys configured with sxhkd: https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/d87f241963edc49a571717af931ba3708c790484/.sxhkdrc#L18 https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/d87f241963edc49a57171...
  - farresito 9y ago
    Understandable. One of the reasons I haven't switched is because so far my system works pretty well and I haven't had the need to use Wayland. What hotkeys do you use sxhkd for? I vaguely remember sxhkd supporting chords while i3 not doing so, but I don't remember more than that.
    - mort96 9y ago
      I use i3wm's `bindsym` for stuff that's related to window management, like moving around windows, resizing them, moving windows or focus to workspaces, etc. Other stuff, like volume control, screenshots (print screen -> take screenshot, upload to a web server, put URL in clipboard), mouse movement (with xdotool), etc. is handled through sxhkd. There's no reason I couldn't just use bindsym for all of that, but now non-windowing hotkeys is not coupled with the WM, so I could choose to switch window manager and still have all non-WM hotkeys work.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
    This is why I dislike Wayland. Forcing so much functionality through the WM means I can't just build my system out of small parts. I also do things that Wayland is specifically designed to break, like keylogging myself.
    - renox 9y ago
      I agree with your first point against Wayland, but your second point isn't correct: Wayland's design is not meant to prevent keyloggers just to make them optional.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
        Same problem, really: now I have to find a window manager that natively supports key logging, rather than just running a small shell script in the background that listens for keyboard events.
  - gingerlime 9y ago
    Sounds interesting. Could you share your setup/workflow?
    - mort96 9y ago
      Here's my git repository with all dotfiles and such: https://github.com/mortie/nixConf https://github.com/mortie/nixConf I use i3wm (well, i3-gaps) as the WM. Xdotool is just used to move the cursor with hotkeys: https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/7c12d4215c703de0c6935d62c4fc7296c6c3c3e8/.sxhkdrc#L18-L28 https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/7c12d4215c703de0c6935..., scrot is used both for a print screen button (scrot takes the picture, then it's copied to my server with scp, and the URL is put in the clipboard: https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/master/bin/mshot https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/master/bin/mshot) and for i3lock (scrot takes the picture, imagemagick pixelates, i3lock shows it: https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/master/bin/mlock https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/master/bin/mlock). I also have a project called dedaemon: https://github.com/mortie/dedaemon https://github.com/mortie/dedaemon. That uses udev to listen to events, like displays or input devices being connected or disconnected, and does a preconfigured to them. I for example have these lines, which sets the resolution and frame rate to any connected monitor to the highest possible, and positions it to the left of the primary monitor: https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/7c12d4215c703de0c6935d62c4fc7296c6c3c3e8/.dedaemon.hcnf#L5-L9 https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/7c12d4215c703de0c6935.... I imagine porting that functionality to wayland would be really hard, and probalby require writing custom extensions to each window manager separately. There's also this other project I have, which isn't really related to wayland, but which I still feel is relevant: mmenu - https://github.com/mortie/mmenu https://github.com/mortie/mmenu. It just makes dmenu work as a calculator, running the input through python if it doesn't match a program in your $PATH, plus some other features.
      - gingerlime 9y ago
        Thanks for sharing! I really appreciate it. Already "borrowed" the screen lock solution, and will look into other productivity enhancements :)
- virtualwhys 9y ago
  > I make unoriginal projects with better code than the thing they rip off. Nice github tagline for SirCmpwn ;-) I've checked the linked issue from time-to-time, looks like it's getting really close to feature complete now. Will probably explore Wayland + Sway after new laptop purchase later this year. In other news, i3 has been at the very core of my computing experience for 5 years running, absolutely fantastic application.
actsasbuffoon 9y ago
i3 is my #1 reason for wanting to switch from MacOS to Linux. I love a good tiling window manager, and the workarounds to emulate a tiling WM in MacOS just aren’t close enough to the real thing.
- bathtub 9y ago
  I did this recently for the same reason. Do not wait and get a Linux system with i3 tomorrow. You will be so much faster and more structured in your daily workflow than with Alt-Tab. A nice side effect: Apps feel much faster than on OSX. I don't know why but everything is snappier and just more resonsive despite a much weaker CPU and same hires screen on the Linux system. Especially the terminal rendering and application switching which is instant.
  - Null-Set 9y ago
    It might have to do with the transition animations in OSX. I found a long time ago that turning off the animations in Windows makes a system feel a while lot more responsive.
- itomato 9y ago
  You can run another window manager (i3) under Xquartz. http://fanf.livejournal.com/142372.html http://fanf.livejournal.com/142372.html
  - city41 9y ago
    This isn't really helpful because the vast majority of OSX apps do not use X11.
    - itomato 9y ago
      Maybe Amethyst is your jam: https://ianyh.com/amethyst/ https://ianyh.com/amethyst/
- city41 9y ago
  I switched from OSX to Linux specifically for i3. Linux is still a pretty annoying OS with lots of little to even big problems like NetworkManager flaking out, suspend/resume being flaky, trackpad annoyances, etc. But despite all of that, I still use Linux because i3 is that damn good. i3 has fundamentally made computing more enjoyable, and enables me to stay "in the flow" much more.
dom0 9y ago
KDE managed to do that with me and it isn't even a tiling WM ... and I spent quite a lot of time on i3pystatus (and somewhat less time on j4-dmenu-desktop).
JetSpiegel 9y ago
And for i3 on Wayland there's already Sway.

I feel the same way, although Wayland is a good perk. Will check it out.

Fear not, friend. There's a very active port of i3 to wayland: https://github.com/SirCmpwn/sway https://github.com/SirCmpwn/sway I haven't personally tried it, but I have heard about it a few times, so I assume it's fairly good. This is the list of supported features, if you are interested: https://github.com/SirCmpwn/sway/issues/2 https://github.com/SirCmpwn/sway/issues/2

mort96 9y ago
The problem for me is that i3 is only a part of the puzzle. I use sxhkd for a bunch of hotkeys; that has to be replaced. I use xdotool _a lot_, and I don't know if such functionality is even possible in wayland. I use scoot heavily, both as a way to screenshot from a hotkey (presumably easy to replace?) and as part of scripts; my script which locks the computer uses scrot, imagemagick and i3lock. There's probably a bunch of other small things in my system which will break by not having an X server too.
- TokenDiversity 9y ago
  You sound like someone who'd like keynav http://www.semicomplete.com/projects/keynav http://www.semicomplete.com/projects/keynav
  - yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
    Since it wasn't linked last time I looked, code is also at https://github.com/jordansissel/keynav https://github.com/jordansissel/keynav Shameless plug: I maintain a fork at https://github.com/yjftsjthsd-g/keynav https://github.com/yjftsjthsd-g/keynav because the original author hasn't been active in a while. Edit: wrong link :)
    - TokenDiversity 9y ago
      Not so shameless if you add a scroll functionality I tell you lol. Actually even otherwise, it's not like you're earning money so no need to disclaim!
      - yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
        Hm. That would be useful. I might have to do that.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
        Heh, so I went to look and see how hard it would be to simulate mouse scrolling, and the answer is... none. Literally none. Because X11 "mouse scroll" events are represented as button presses. Mouse buttons are 1=left, 2=middle, 3=right, 4=scroll-up, 5=scroll-down. So you just stick the relevant lines in your keynavrc; ex. i click 4 e click 5 That said, I may make an effort to document this better.
        TokenDiversity 9y ago
        I saw, I came here to thank and noticed you replied :)
    - mort96 9y ago
      That looks pretty interesting. stole the idea and made something similar in bash: https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/master/bin/mousetree https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/master/bin/mousetree, with hotkeys configured with sxhkd: https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/d87f241963edc49a571717af931ba3708c790484/.sxhkdrc#L18 https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/d87f241963edc49a57171...
- farresito 9y ago
  Understandable. One of the reasons I haven't switched is because so far my system works pretty well and I haven't had the need to use Wayland. What hotkeys do you use sxhkd for? I vaguely remember sxhkd supporting chords while i3 not doing so, but I don't remember more than that.
  - mort96 9y ago
    I use i3wm's `bindsym` for stuff that's related to window management, like moving around windows, resizing them, moving windows or focus to workspaces, etc. Other stuff, like volume control, screenshots (print screen -> take screenshot, upload to a web server, put URL in clipboard), mouse movement (with xdotool), etc. is handled through sxhkd. There's no reason I couldn't just use bindsym for all of that, but now non-windowing hotkeys is not coupled with the WM, so I could choose to switch window manager and still have all non-WM hotkeys work.
- yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
  This is why I dislike Wayland. Forcing so much functionality through the WM means I can't just build my system out of small parts. I also do things that Wayland is specifically designed to break, like keylogging myself.
  - renox 9y ago
    I agree with your first point against Wayland, but your second point isn't correct: Wayland's design is not meant to prevent keyloggers just to make them optional.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
      Same problem, really: now I have to find a window manager that natively supports key logging, rather than just running a small shell script in the background that listens for keyboard events.
- gingerlime 9y ago
  Sounds interesting. Could you share your setup/workflow?
  - mort96 9y ago
    Here's my git repository with all dotfiles and such: https://github.com/mortie/nixConf https://github.com/mortie/nixConf I use i3wm (well, i3-gaps) as the WM. Xdotool is just used to move the cursor with hotkeys: https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/7c12d4215c703de0c6935d62c4fc7296c6c3c3e8/.sxhkdrc#L18-L28 https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/7c12d4215c703de0c6935..., scrot is used both for a print screen button (scrot takes the picture, then it's copied to my server with scp, and the URL is put in the clipboard: https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/master/bin/mshot https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/master/bin/mshot) and for i3lock (scrot takes the picture, imagemagick pixelates, i3lock shows it: https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/master/bin/mlock https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/master/bin/mlock). I also have a project called dedaemon: https://github.com/mortie/dedaemon https://github.com/mortie/dedaemon. That uses udev to listen to events, like displays or input devices being connected or disconnected, and does a preconfigured to them. I for example have these lines, which sets the resolution and frame rate to any connected monitor to the highest possible, and positions it to the left of the primary monitor: https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/7c12d4215c703de0c6935d62c4fc7296c6c3c3e8/.dedaemon.hcnf#L5-L9 https://github.com/mortie/nixConf/blob/7c12d4215c703de0c6935.... I imagine porting that functionality to wayland would be really hard, and probalby require writing custom extensions to each window manager separately. There's also this other project I have, which isn't really related to wayland, but which I still feel is relevant: mmenu - https://github.com/mortie/mmenu https://github.com/mortie/mmenu. It just makes dmenu work as a calculator, running the input through python if it doesn't match a program in your $PATH, plus some other features.
    - gingerlime 9y ago
      Thanks for sharing! I really appreciate it. Already "borrowed" the screen lock solution, and will look into other productivity enhancements :)
virtualwhys 9y ago
> I make unoriginal projects with better code than the thing they rip off. Nice github tagline for SirCmpwn ;-) I've checked the linked issue from time-to-time, looks like it's getting really close to feature complete now. Will probably explore Wayland + Sway after new laptop purchase later this year. In other news, i3 has been at the very core of my computing experience for 5 years running, absolutely fantastic application.

actsasbuffoon 9y ago

i3 is my #1 reason for wanting to switch from MacOS to Linux. I love a good tiling window manager, and the workarounds to emulate a tiling WM in MacOS just aren’t close enough to the real thing.

bathtub 9y ago
I did this recently for the same reason. Do not wait and get a Linux system with i3 tomorrow. You will be so much faster and more structured in your daily workflow than with Alt-Tab. A nice side effect: Apps feel much faster than on OSX. I don't know why but everything is snappier and just more resonsive despite a much weaker CPU and same hires screen on the Linux system. Especially the terminal rendering and application switching which is instant.
- Null-Set 9y ago
  It might have to do with the transition animations in OSX. I found a long time ago that turning off the animations in Windows makes a system feel a while lot more responsive.
itomato 9y ago
You can run another window manager (i3) under Xquartz. http://fanf.livejournal.com/142372.html http://fanf.livejournal.com/142372.html
- city41 9y ago
  This isn't really helpful because the vast majority of OSX apps do not use X11.
  - itomato 9y ago
    Maybe Amethyst is your jam: https://ianyh.com/amethyst/ https://ianyh.com/amethyst/
city41 9y ago
I switched from OSX to Linux specifically for i3. Linux is still a pretty annoying OS with lots of little to even big problems like NetworkManager flaking out, suspend/resume being flaky, trackpad annoyances, etc. But despite all of that, I still use Linux because i3 is that damn good. i3 has fundamentally made computing more enjoyable, and enables me to stay "in the flow" much more.

dom0 9y ago

KDE managed to do that with me and it isn't even a tiling WM ... and I spent quite a lot of time on i3pystatus (and somewhat less time on j4-dmenu-desktop).

JetSpiegel 9y ago

And for i3 on Wayland there's already Sway.