3 ms·

This statement is deceptive -- it conflates movement into the second and middle quintiles. The second quintile of American income is still very, very poor: $18

by hapless 16y ago

This statement is deceptive -- it conflates movement into the second and middle quintiles. The second quintile of American income is still very, very poor: $18k-$35k of household income. The median household is three people, with only one wage earner. (The second quintile of individual, wage-earner, income tops out at less than $25k.) Movement from abject poverty into the second quintile is quite common. (Movement in the other direction is also common.) Going from zero to one wage-earner in a household can make that difference. Moving from destitution up to the middle (3rd) quintile is a much more difficult road.

fizx 16y ago
> he second quintile of American income is still very, very poor My brother lived a middle-class lifestyle in Michigan on $25k/year. There's plenty of frugal people living in the sticks who do just fine.
- loewenskind 16y ago
  $25k/year is pretty close to the poverty line. What exactly do you call "middle-class lifestyle"?
  - mkramlich 16y ago
    In the USA I think $2k/month for a single person, who had the foresight and willpower to not get married (yet) and not make babies (yet) is actually quite livable and hardly poverty.
    - loewenskind 16y ago
      Of course you can live on that, but I wouldn't call such a situation middle class.
- GFischer 16y ago
  I guess that's only true if you already own a place to live in. I would do really well on my current wage if I owned a place, but since I don't, I have to spend between a quarter and half my earnings on a place to live in (I still live way better than the average Uruguayan).
ryanwaggoner 16y ago
It seems like you're using a fairly mutable definition of "poverty" that you can push around to suit your needs. Now people have to move from the lowest quintile to the middle quintile to meet your definition of "escaping poverty"? I also find it interesting that almost 50% of households in the lowest quintile own their own homes. And the 2nd and 3rd quintiles have nearly 60% and 70% home ownership rates, respectively. Now, I'm not arguing that owning your home means you're not poor, but I think characterizing the 1st or 2nd quintile as "abject poverty" is a bit of a stretch. Here's an interesting paper on what poverty in America actually looks like: http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2007/08/How-Poor-Are-Americas-Poor-Examining-the-Plague-of-Poverty-in-America http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2007/08/How-Poor-Ar... Source for quintile data: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_...
astine 16y ago
I have friends in the second quintile and they're anything but destitute. $35k is only impoverished if you live in a city or urban area. Living expenses are much lower in most of America.

by hapless 16y ago

fizx 16y ago

> he second quintile of American income is still very, very poor My brother lived a middle-class lifestyle in Michigan on $25k/year. There's plenty of frugal people living in the sticks who do just fine.

loewenskind 16y ago
$25k/year is pretty close to the poverty line. What exactly do you call "middle-class lifestyle"?
- mkramlich 16y ago
  In the USA I think $2k/month for a single person, who had the foresight and willpower to not get married (yet) and not make babies (yet) is actually quite livable and hardly poverty.
  - loewenskind 16y ago
    Of course you can live on that, but I wouldn't call such a situation middle class.
GFischer 16y ago
I guess that's only true if you already own a place to live in. I would do really well on my current wage if I owned a place, but since I don't, I have to spend between a quarter and half my earnings on a place to live in (I still live way better than the average Uruguayan).

ryanwaggoner 16y ago

It seems like you're using a fairly mutable definition of "poverty" that you can push around to suit your needs. Now people have to move from the lowest quintile to the middle quintile to meet your definition of "escaping poverty"? I also find it interesting that almost 50% of households in the lowest quintile own their own homes. And the 2nd and 3rd quintiles have nearly 60% and 70% home ownership rates, respectively. Now, I'm not arguing that owning your home means you're not poor, but I think characterizing the 1st or 2nd quintile as "abject poverty" is a bit of a stretch. Here's an interesting paper on what poverty in America actually looks like: http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2007/08/How-Poor-Are-Americas-Poor-Examining-the-Plague-of-Poverty-in-America http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2007/08/How-Poor-Ar... Source for quintile data: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_...

astine 16y ago

I have friends in the second quintile and they're anything but destitute. $35k is only impoverished if you live in a city or urban area. Living expenses are much lower in most of America.