4 ms·

If you're working 12 hour days and having trouble with your social life, the problem is _not_ that it's not OK to hit on women in a professional setting. The pr

by noahth 9y ago

If you're working 12 hour days and having trouble with your social life, the problem is _not_ that it's not OK to hit on women in a professional setting. The problem is that you're working too much.

theWatcher37 9y ago
Stop bringing gender in to this. You can ask someone out during an after-hours social event without it being wrong. What's wrong is retaliation based on those things happening.
- noahth 9y ago
  If you think I'm the one who brought gender into this, you're either ignorant to the structural realities of our industry, or you're willfully being obtuse. If it's the former, let me be the first to tell you that men have most of the power and it's no accident that in the story this post reacts to, it's the men in power committing the abuse and not the other way around. Not to say that women can't be inappropriate at work or whatever, but if you're looking to promote equality, "both sides do bad things" is not the right way to do it in this case.
  - tnone 9y ago
    The structural realities of our industry are that men are the majority at all echelons. Men have most of the power and men are most of the subjects. Ignoring half of the equation to paint women as a unique victim class is disingenuous, and ironically, it is a power move. Topping from the bottom. HR taking the company's side... A superior leveraging their position to extract concessions rather than engage a person on equal ground... These are universal problems. Twisting everything into a gender issue because of sexuality involves the automatic assumption that a woman's sexual virtue is something special and any other abuse of power is just not as big a deal. A very gender essentialist and conservative position. As an actual leftie, it should make me sad, but tbh it amuses me to no end in its absurdity. In the name of progressive politics, all sorts of traditional views are being promoted. Men should be chivalrous, women need protection, public shaming is good, morality must be enforced by a clerical class, with everyone else kissing the ring in acquiescence. Bizarre. As if politics are far more built-in than we want to admit, and freedom and tolerance can become labels for the exact opposite.
    - TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
      Are we demonising specific behaviours, or power imbalances in general, or just one gender? Do exploitative power imbalances fade into political and economic background noise when they're "only" about money and/or hierarchy, and no dating or sex are involved? Do "uncomfortable feelings" around dating and sex have a paradoxically privileged place in this discourse, over "uncomfortable feelings" caused by more overt forms of verbal, financial, political, or legal abuse - and if so, why?

by noahth 9y ago

If you're working 12 hour days and having trouble with your social life, the problem is _not_ that it's not OK to hit on women in a professional setting. The problem is that you're working too much.

theWatcher37 9y ago

Stop bringing gender in to this. You can ask someone out during an after-hours social event without it being wrong. What's wrong is retaliation based on those things happening.

noahth 9y ago
If you think I'm the one who brought gender into this, you're either ignorant to the structural realities of our industry, or you're willfully being obtuse. If it's the former, let me be the first to tell you that men have most of the power and it's no accident that in the story this post reacts to, it's the men in power committing the abuse and not the other way around. Not to say that women can't be inappropriate at work or whatever, but if you're looking to promote equality, "both sides do bad things" is not the right way to do it in this case.
- tnone 9y ago
  The structural realities of our industry are that men are the majority at all echelons. Men have most of the power and men are most of the subjects. Ignoring half of the equation to paint women as a unique victim class is disingenuous, and ironically, it is a power move. Topping from the bottom. HR taking the company's side... A superior leveraging their position to extract concessions rather than engage a person on equal ground... These are universal problems. Twisting everything into a gender issue because of sexuality involves the automatic assumption that a woman's sexual virtue is something special and any other abuse of power is just not as big a deal. A very gender essentialist and conservative position. As an actual leftie, it should make me sad, but tbh it amuses me to no end in its absurdity. In the name of progressive politics, all sorts of traditional views are being promoted. Men should be chivalrous, women need protection, public shaming is good, morality must be enforced by a clerical class, with everyone else kissing the ring in acquiescence. Bizarre. As if politics are far more built-in than we want to admit, and freedom and tolerance can become labels for the exact opposite.
  - TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
    Are we demonising specific behaviours, or power imbalances in general, or just one gender? Do exploitative power imbalances fade into political and economic background noise when they're "only" about money and/or hierarchy, and no dating or sex are involved? Do "uncomfortable feelings" around dating and sex have a paradoxically privileged place in this discourse, over "uncomfortable feelings" caused by more overt forms of verbal, financial, political, or legal abuse - and if so, why?