4 ms·

There are dozens, hundreds of events ranging from meetups to conference parties to pitch events to just about everything else that often involve drinks or going

There are dozens, hundreds of events ranging from meetups to conference parties to pitch events to just about everything else that often involve drinks or going out for drinks immediately before/after with other participants. Whether that's "social" or a "professional" setting is hotly debated but regardless, it's the norm. Throw in social media and it is very easy (still not appropriate) to blur lines.

taurath 9y ago
If you have a job where you are working 12 hour days and weekends, your job is your life. I am actually curious when would an actual appropriate time to ask someone on a date might be - clearly the second someone brings up professional stuff, it should be out the door, but the veil of that can be breached with a simple "what have you been working on lately"
- noahth 9y ago
  If you're working 12 hour days and having trouble with your social life, the problem is _not_ that it's not OK to hit on women in a professional setting. The problem is that you're working too much.
  - theWatcher37 9y ago
    Stop bringing gender in to this. You can ask someone out during an after-hours social event without it being wrong. What's wrong is retaliation based on those things happening.
    - noahth 9y ago
      If you think I'm the one who brought gender into this, you're either ignorant to the structural realities of our industry, or you're willfully being obtuse. If it's the former, let me be the first to tell you that men have most of the power and it's no accident that in the story this post reacts to, it's the men in power committing the abuse and not the other way around. Not to say that women can't be inappropriate at work or whatever, but if you're looking to promote equality, "both sides do bad things" is not the right way to do it in this case.
      - tnone 9y ago
        The structural realities of our industry are that men are the majority at all echelons. Men have most of the power and men are most of the subjects. Ignoring half of the equation to paint women as a unique victim class is disingenuous, and ironically, it is a power move. Topping from the bottom. HR taking the company's side... A superior leveraging their position to extract concessions rather than engage a person on equal ground... These are universal problems. Twisting everything into a gender issue because of sexuality involves the automatic assumption that a woman's sexual virtue is something special and any other abuse of power is just not as big a deal. A very gender essentialist and conservative position. As an actual leftie, it should make me sad, but tbh it amuses me to no end in its absurdity. In the name of progressive politics, all sorts of traditional views are being promoted. Men should be chivalrous, women need protection, public shaming is good, morality must be enforced by a clerical class, with everyone else kissing the ring in acquiescence. Bizarre. As if politics are far more built-in than we want to admit, and freedom and tolerance can become labels for the exact opposite.
        TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
        Are we demonising specific behaviours, or power imbalances in general, or just one gender? Do exploitative power imbalances fade into political and economic background noise when they're "only" about money and/or hierarchy, and no dating or sex are involved? Do "uncomfortable feelings" around dating and sex have a paradoxically privileged place in this discourse, over "uncomfortable feelings" caused by more overt forms of verbal, financial, political, or legal abuse - and if so, why?
- criddell 9y ago
  > when would an actual appropriate time to ask someone on a date might be If you are in a position of power over another person, I would say there isn't an appropriate time. The number of hours you work isn't really relevant. Put it this way: when is an appropriate time for a college professor (that works long hours!) to ask a student out on a date?
  - tanderson92 9y ago
    > when is an appropriate time for a college professor (that works long hours!) to ask a student out on a date? A student generally or one of his students? There is a difference. And not too long ago a professor dating a student that he/she didn't have power over was not that uncommon.
    - JadeNB 9y ago
      > And not too long ago a professor dating a student that he/she didn't have power over was not that uncommon. There are a lot of things that are not uncommon, but are still totally inappropriate.
      - resf 9y ago
        What's inappropriate is for a third party to decide when and when not two adults can have a private relationship.
      - noobermin 9y ago
        Wait a second, if there is no power inbalance, how is it inappropriate? Are we merely arguing about social mores without any reason?
      - JadeNB 9y ago
        > > And not too long ago a professor dating a student that he/she didn't have power over was not that uncommon. > There are a lot of things that are not uncommon, but are still totally inappropriate. Sorry! I was responding late at night, and, even though I quoted it, I totally missed tanderson92 (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14680337 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14680337) 's caveat "that he/she didn't have power over", which, of course, totally changes the ethics. (It still doesn't seem persuasive to me to argue the ethics of a behaviour in terms of what used to be common, since it is still true that a lot of awful things used to be, and still are, common; but my comment was mostly based on a misinterpretation.)
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

taurath 9y ago

If you have a job where you are working 12 hour days and weekends, your job is your life. I am actually curious when would an actual appropriate time to ask someone on a date might be - clearly the second someone brings up professional stuff, it should be out the door, but the veil of that can be breached with a simple "what have you been working on lately"

noahth 9y ago
If you're working 12 hour days and having trouble with your social life, the problem is _not_ that it's not OK to hit on women in a professional setting. The problem is that you're working too much.
- theWatcher37 9y ago
  Stop bringing gender in to this. You can ask someone out during an after-hours social event without it being wrong. What's wrong is retaliation based on those things happening.
  - noahth 9y ago
    If you think I'm the one who brought gender into this, you're either ignorant to the structural realities of our industry, or you're willfully being obtuse. If it's the former, let me be the first to tell you that men have most of the power and it's no accident that in the story this post reacts to, it's the men in power committing the abuse and not the other way around. Not to say that women can't be inappropriate at work or whatever, but if you're looking to promote equality, "both sides do bad things" is not the right way to do it in this case.
    - tnone 9y ago
      The structural realities of our industry are that men are the majority at all echelons. Men have most of the power and men are most of the subjects. Ignoring half of the equation to paint women as a unique victim class is disingenuous, and ironically, it is a power move. Topping from the bottom. HR taking the company's side... A superior leveraging their position to extract concessions rather than engage a person on equal ground... These are universal problems. Twisting everything into a gender issue because of sexuality involves the automatic assumption that a woman's sexual virtue is something special and any other abuse of power is just not as big a deal. A very gender essentialist and conservative position. As an actual leftie, it should make me sad, but tbh it amuses me to no end in its absurdity. In the name of progressive politics, all sorts of traditional views are being promoted. Men should be chivalrous, women need protection, public shaming is good, morality must be enforced by a clerical class, with everyone else kissing the ring in acquiescence. Bizarre. As if politics are far more built-in than we want to admit, and freedom and tolerance can become labels for the exact opposite.
      - TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
        Are we demonising specific behaviours, or power imbalances in general, or just one gender? Do exploitative power imbalances fade into political and economic background noise when they're "only" about money and/or hierarchy, and no dating or sex are involved? Do "uncomfortable feelings" around dating and sex have a paradoxically privileged place in this discourse, over "uncomfortable feelings" caused by more overt forms of verbal, financial, political, or legal abuse - and if so, why?
criddell 9y ago
> when would an actual appropriate time to ask someone on a date might be If you are in a position of power over another person, I would say there isn't an appropriate time. The number of hours you work isn't really relevant. Put it this way: when is an appropriate time for a college professor (that works long hours!) to ask a student out on a date?
- tanderson92 9y ago
  > when is an appropriate time for a college professor (that works long hours!) to ask a student out on a date? A student generally or one of his students? There is a difference. And not too long ago a professor dating a student that he/she didn't have power over was not that uncommon.
  - JadeNB 9y ago
    > And not too long ago a professor dating a student that he/she didn't have power over was not that uncommon. There are a lot of things that are not uncommon, but are still totally inappropriate.
    - resf 9y ago
      What's inappropriate is for a third party to decide when and when not two adults can have a private relationship.
    - noobermin 9y ago
      Wait a second, if there is no power inbalance, how is it inappropriate? Are we merely arguing about social mores without any reason?
    - JadeNB 9y ago
      > > And not too long ago a professor dating a student that he/she didn't have power over was not that uncommon. > There are a lot of things that are not uncommon, but are still totally inappropriate. Sorry! I was responding late at night, and, even though I quoted it, I totally missed tanderson92 (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14680337 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14680337) 's caveat "that he/she didn't have power over", which, of course, totally changes the ethics. (It still doesn't seem persuasive to me to argue the ethics of a behaviour in terms of what used to be common, since it is still true that a lot of awful things used to be, and still are, common; but my comment was mostly based on a misinterpretation.)

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]