4 ms·

As much as I hate to say this - I must say it: this was one of the few good things (maybe the only one?) about communism - public beaches for all seas, lakes an

by pulse7 9y ago

As much as I hate to say this - I must say it: this was one of the few good things (maybe the only one?) about communism - public beaches for all seas, lakes and rivers. Nobody could own first 4 meters from the water. And many tourist from non-communist countries came and enjoyed and marvelled this freedom they didn't have in their own countries. Western countries could copy this...

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
Tade0 9y ago
Coming from an ex-communist country I was amazed to see that privately owned beaches with an entrance fee are even a thing. Unfortunately from what I witnessed there's way too much money to be made in this business, so if somebody is going to adopt someone else's approach, then it's going to be the ex-communist countries.
- Swizec 9y ago
  The trick they use in my ex-communist country is to make a really really nice beach, and charge exorbitant fees for services like chair and sunshade rental. Oh you don't want that? Too bad, beach is covered in them, no room for your towel unless you wanna invade people's personal space I'm afraid. Maybe you should find a different beach eh buddy?
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
djsumdog 9y ago
> communism socialism. Socialism is when the state provides something for the people. Fire, police, roads, buses/public transport, parks, the post office .. all that is socialism. Communism is buying a round of beers and the next person in your group buying a round of beers. It's the understood unspoken agreement between your flatmates to keep the place clean. It's the communal aspect of humanity and we all practice it every day.
- eevilspock 9y ago
  > Communism is... the communal aspect of humanity and we all practice it every day. So well put. Most families practice "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." Evil communist pigs!
- tomjakubowski 9y ago
  > Socialism is when the state provides something for the people No, socialism has nothing to do with the state. It just describes a social-economic system where workers collectively own the capital goods they use to produce value, rather than members of the capitalist class. This is why kibbutzes could be described as "socialist" despite being entirely private and not related to the Israeli state. Social democracy and "welfare states" are what you're thinking of.
eigenvector 9y ago
You don't need communism to have the concept of public lands and public rights-of-way across private land. A huge part of the western USA and Alaska, after all, is public lands. The UK: https://www.gov.uk/right-of-way-open-access-land/use-your-right-to-roam https://www.gov.uk/right-of-way-open-access-land/use-your-ri... Scotland, which has even broader rights than the rest of the UK: http://www.ramblers.org.uk/advice/paths-and-access/england/what-is-the-right-to-roam.aspx http://www.ramblers.org.uk/advice/paths-and-access/england/w... Sweden: http://www.swedishepa.se/Environmental-objectives-and-cooperation/Swedish-environmental-work/Work-areas/This-is-the-Right-of-Public-Access/ http://www.swedishepa.se/Environmental-objectives-and-cooper... Norway: https://www.visitnorway.com/plan-your-trip/travel-tips-a-z/right-of-access/ https://www.visitnorway.com/plan-your-trip/travel-tips-a-z/r... Public access is absolutely compatible with private land titles and liberal democracy - we just need the government to step up and implement it over the objections of the privileged few.
- komali2 9y ago
  Spain
benjohnson 9y ago
The rights to to beach access can also be traced to the Code of Justinian in the 6th century: 1. By the law of nature these things are common to mankind, the air, running water, the sea, and consequently the shores of the sea. No one, therefore, is forbidden to approach the seashore, provided that he respects habitationes, monuments, and buildings which are not, like the sea, subject only to the law of nations. 2. All rivers and ports are public; hence the right of fishing in a port, or in rivers, is common to all men. 3. The seashore extends as far as the greatest winter flood runs up. 4. The public use of the banks of a river is part of the law of nations, just as is that of the river itself. All persons, therefore, are as much at liberty to bring their vessels to the bank, to fasten ropes to the trees growing there, and to place any part of their cargo there, as to navigate the river itself But the banks of a river are the property of those whose land they adjoin; and consequently the trees growing on them are also the property of the same persons. 5. The public use of the seashore, too, is part of the law of nations, as is that of the sea itself; and, therefore, any person is at liberty to place on it a cottage, to which he may retreat, or to dry his nets there, and haul them from the sea; for the shores may be said to be the property of no man, but are subject to the same law as the sea itself, and the sand or ground beneath it. TLDR: Really old Roman dude said watery stuff is public.

by pulse7 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

Tade0 9y ago

Coming from an ex-communist country I was amazed to see that privately owned beaches with an entrance fee are even a thing. Unfortunately from what I witnessed there's way too much money to be made in this business, so if somebody is going to adopt someone else's approach, then it's going to be the ex-communist countries.

Swizec 9y ago
The trick they use in my ex-communist country is to make a really really nice beach, and charge exorbitant fees for services like chair and sunshade rental. Oh you don't want that? Too bad, beach is covered in them, no room for your towel unless you wanna invade people's personal space I'm afraid. Maybe you should find a different beach eh buddy?

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

djsumdog 9y ago

> communism socialism. Socialism is when the state provides something for the people. Fire, police, roads, buses/public transport, parks, the post office .. all that is socialism. Communism is buying a round of beers and the next person in your group buying a round of beers. It's the understood unspoken agreement between your flatmates to keep the place clean. It's the communal aspect of humanity and we all practice it every day.

eevilspock 9y ago
> Communism is... the communal aspect of humanity and we all practice it every day. So well put. Most families practice "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." Evil communist pigs!
tomjakubowski 9y ago
> Socialism is when the state provides something for the people No, socialism has nothing to do with the state. It just describes a social-economic system where workers collectively own the capital goods they use to produce value, rather than members of the capitalist class. This is why kibbutzes could be described as "socialist" despite being entirely private and not related to the Israeli state. Social democracy and "welfare states" are what you're thinking of.

eigenvector 9y ago

You don't need communism to have the concept of public lands and public rights-of-way across private land. A huge part of the western USA and Alaska, after all, is public lands. The UK: https://www.gov.uk/right-of-way-open-access-land/use-your-right-to-roam https://www.gov.uk/right-of-way-open-access-land/use-your-ri... Scotland, which has even broader rights than the rest of the UK: http://www.ramblers.org.uk/advice/paths-and-access/england/what-is-the-right-to-roam.aspx http://www.ramblers.org.uk/advice/paths-and-access/england/w... Sweden: http://www.swedishepa.se/Environmental-objectives-and-cooperation/Swedish-environmental-work/Work-areas/This-is-the-Right-of-Public-Access/ http://www.swedishepa.se/Environmental-objectives-and-cooper... Norway: https://www.visitnorway.com/plan-your-trip/travel-tips-a-z/right-of-access/ https://www.visitnorway.com/plan-your-trip/travel-tips-a-z/r... Public access is absolutely compatible with private land titles and liberal democracy - we just need the government to step up and implement it over the objections of the privileged few.

komali2 9y ago
Spain

benjohnson 9y ago

The rights to to beach access can also be traced to the Code of Justinian in the 6th century: 1. By the law of nature these things are common to mankind, the air, running water, the sea, and consequently the shores of the sea. No one, therefore, is forbidden to approach the seashore, provided that he respects habitationes, monuments, and buildings which are not, like the sea, subject only to the law of nations. 2. All rivers and ports are public; hence the right of fishing in a port, or in rivers, is common to all men. 3. The seashore extends as far as the greatest winter flood runs up. 4. The public use of the banks of a river is part of the law of nations, just as is that of the river itself. All persons, therefore, are as much at liberty to bring their vessels to the bank, to fasten ropes to the trees growing there, and to place any part of their cargo there, as to navigate the river itself But the banks of a river are the property of those whose land they adjoin; and consequently the trees growing on them are also the property of the same persons. 5. The public use of the seashore, too, is part of the law of nations, as is that of the sea itself; and, therefore, any person is at liberty to place on it a cottage, to which he may retreat, or to dry his nets there, and haul them from the sea; for the shores may be said to be the property of no man, but are subject to the same law as the sea itself, and the sand or ground beneath it. TLDR: Really old Roman dude said watery stuff is public.