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> None of my computer courses included ethics as part of the lectures or reading. Ethics was a required course for me back in 2005. Looking at ABET requirement

> None of my computer courses included ethics as part of the lectures or reading. Ethics was a required course for me back in 2005. Looking at ABET requirements[0] for 2016-2017, ethics is still a requirement. I'll admit that more than 1 course would've been nice, but it is part of the required curriculum in the US. (Also required was a course in doing presentations, which was actually quite helpful!) [0]http://www.abet.org/accreditation/accreditation-criteria/criteria-for-accrediting-computing-programs-2016-2017/ http://www.abet.org/accreditation/accreditation-criteria/cri...

rsj_hn 9y ago
There is no such thing as a "required curriculum in the U.S." Each university has their own requirements for each degree, and you can pick your major/degree. In my university, since I was in the college of liberal arts and sciences and tested out of English, I had to take basically 4 semesters of any class that had a "literacy" label. I choose Chinese History (2 classes), Chaucer (1 class), and Post Impressionist Art (1 class). That fulfilled the liberal arts portion of my graduation requirement. In no universe was there a requirement to take an "ethics" class -- that's way too specific and most ethics classes are rare in today's college curriculum. I just needed 4 classes with an "L" next to their class description in the syllabus, and there were a wide variety -- literally hundreds -- to choose from. I think, in general, a humanities education has real benefits. Ethics, well, it depends on the course and person taking it. Unfortunately a lot of the humanities courses are in some strange "hate the patriarchy" mode where you are taught to hate white people, and this isn't really something conducive to building products with mass appeal in a nation with a white majority. Having said that, there are many great opportunities to learn more about the humanities just by reading the classics or taking some online courses. You have to pick and choose. I actually think most programmers are much better people -- much more honest and ethical people -- than the humanities graduates I know, and that this is primarily due to their avoidance of humanities classes as currently taught in american universities. Also, there is something about studying the humanities that tends to make you look down on people, which is something I didn't see when I interacted with mathematicians or engineers.
rsj_hn 9y ago
I've never heard of Abet. The U.S. higher education accreditation system is decentralized. Schools can pick which (if any) they want to accredit them, but the real schools pick regional bodies: For instance, University of Texas at Austin is accredited by the Southern Association of Colleges. MIT is accredited by the New England Association of Schools and Colleges. Caltech is accredited by the Western Association of Schools and Colleges (WASC) -- see a pattern? None of them are accredited by Abet.
- com2kid 9y ago
  MIT's Computer Science program is ABET accredited. http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?OrganizationID=41&ProgramIDs=3316,3317 http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?Orga... So is Berkely's. http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?OrganizationID=368&ProgramIDs= http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?Orga... And University of Texas at Austin's CS Program is not ABET, although a number of their other programs are. (A quick search doesn't reveal who who accredits UT Austin's CS program.) I know that when I was a student, being ABET accredited was a big deal. Students were incredibly worried when the accreditation reviews happened, and put pressure on the department to ensure any recommendations were complied with.
  - tnecniv 9y ago
    It still is a big deal. When I was looking at schools in 2012, I remember pretty much every program specifically mentioned their ABET accreditation.
    - rsj_hn 9y ago
      Maybe it's a big deal for foreign schools? Universities in the U.S. are accredited by regional bodies, like WASC. ABET is not recognized by the U.S. Department of Education to give accreditation for higher education, so having an ABET accreditation will not allow you to get government guarantees of student loans, for example. See: https://ope.ed.gov/accreditation/ https://ope.ed.gov/accreditation/ For this reason, it can't be a big deal for higher education, which is why it doesn't set any standards for U.S. higher education. That's not to say that ABET isn't a professional organization or that it doesn't recognize schools schools as complying with its own standards. FIRE gives awards for schools that have freedom of expression on campus. But FIRE isn't going to let you take student loans. The Department of Education has to recognize the accrediting body for that to happen. ABET it is recognized by the "Council of Higher Education", which is not a government body or regulatory body at all. It's just a private professional organization which doesn't have much influence in higher education.

rsj_hn 9y ago

There is no such thing as a "required curriculum in the U.S." Each university has their own requirements for each degree, and you can pick your major/degree. In my university, since I was in the college of liberal arts and sciences and tested out of English, I had to take basically 4 semesters of any class that had a "literacy" label. I choose Chinese History (2 classes), Chaucer (1 class), and Post Impressionist Art (1 class). That fulfilled the liberal arts portion of my graduation requirement. In no universe was there a requirement to take an "ethics" class -- that's way too specific and most ethics classes are rare in today's college curriculum. I just needed 4 classes with an "L" next to their class description in the syllabus, and there were a wide variety -- literally hundreds -- to choose from. I think, in general, a humanities education has real benefits. Ethics, well, it depends on the course and person taking it. Unfortunately a lot of the humanities courses are in some strange "hate the patriarchy" mode where you are taught to hate white people, and this isn't really something conducive to building products with mass appeal in a nation with a white majority. Having said that, there are many great opportunities to learn more about the humanities just by reading the classics or taking some online courses. You have to pick and choose. I actually think most programmers are much better people -- much more honest and ethical people -- than the humanities graduates I know, and that this is primarily due to their avoidance of humanities classes as currently taught in american universities. Also, there is something about studying the humanities that tends to make you look down on people, which is something I didn't see when I interacted with mathematicians or engineers.

rsj_hn 9y ago

I've never heard of Abet. The U.S. higher education accreditation system is decentralized. Schools can pick which (if any) they want to accredit them, but the real schools pick regional bodies: For instance, University of Texas at Austin is accredited by the Southern Association of Colleges. MIT is accredited by the New England Association of Schools and Colleges. Caltech is accredited by the Western Association of Schools and Colleges (WASC) -- see a pattern? None of them are accredited by Abet.

com2kid 9y ago
MIT's Computer Science program is ABET accredited. http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?OrganizationID=41&ProgramIDs=3316,3317 http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?Orga... So is Berkely's. http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?OrganizationID=368&ProgramIDs= http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?Orga... And University of Texas at Austin's CS Program is not ABET, although a number of their other programs are. (A quick search doesn't reveal who who accredits UT Austin's CS program.) I know that when I was a student, being ABET accredited was a big deal. Students were incredibly worried when the accreditation reviews happened, and put pressure on the department to ensure any recommendations were complied with.
- tnecniv 9y ago
  It still is a big deal. When I was looking at schools in 2012, I remember pretty much every program specifically mentioned their ABET accreditation.
  - rsj_hn 9y ago
    Maybe it's a big deal for foreign schools? Universities in the U.S. are accredited by regional bodies, like WASC. ABET is not recognized by the U.S. Department of Education to give accreditation for higher education, so having an ABET accreditation will not allow you to get government guarantees of student loans, for example. See: https://ope.ed.gov/accreditation/ https://ope.ed.gov/accreditation/ For this reason, it can't be a big deal for higher education, which is why it doesn't set any standards for U.S. higher education. That's not to say that ABET isn't a professional organization or that it doesn't recognize schools schools as complying with its own standards. FIRE gives awards for schools that have freedom of expression on campus. But FIRE isn't going to let you take student loans. The Department of Education has to recognize the accrediting body for that to happen. ABET it is recognized by the "Council of Higher Education", which is not a government body or regulatory body at all. It's just a private professional organization which doesn't have much influence in higher education.