4 ms·

The problems affecting high-speed rail in the US are the same problems that prevent low-speed rail, streetcars, subways, and buses from being more common -- peo

The problems affecting high-speed rail in the US are the same problems that prevent low-speed rail, streetcars, subways, and buses from being more common -- people don't see themselves using such things and so they don't want to pay for them. In the Bay Area, the Caltrain commuter train runs from San Jose to San Francisco, through the downtown areas of most major cities in between. It is currently so popular that it is significantly over capacity every day. Yet it is still a constant political battle to get funding to improve the system, even though the Bay Area is one of the most educated and politically liberal parts of the country, where support for public transit is higher than many other places. Sometimes I think we would have much more transit funding overall if we set aside part of the transit budget to send Americans to other countries on vacation, so they will return knowing how good public transit can actually be.

tptacek 9y ago
I do not think this is true. I think people have an easier time seeing themselves in an Acela car than they do in a Jetblue seat --- which is part of why the Acela is so popular. People don't drive from DC to NYC so they can signal their independence. Pretty much, they don't drive from DC to NYC at all. Where HSR is feasible and built out in the US, it gets used. The problem is, HSR isn't feasible for the most economically important routes in the US. You can get from London to Paris in 3 hours on a train, and from Paris to Frankfurt in about 5. Almost as a rule, the most economically central European cities are closer to each other by rail than the most important American cities are --- excepting the Eastern Seaboard, where we have rail --- by air.
- meddlepal 9y ago
  Have you ridden Acela and done so frequently? It's not that great of an experience of you haven't. Expensive and often delayed.
  - wyclif 9y ago
    Expensive, often delayed, people noisy and talking loudly in the so-called "quiet car", slow to non-existent internet connectivity, etc.
    - r00fus 9y ago
      Do you rely on provided internet? Doesn't your phone LTE work well?
- efuquen 9y ago
  "People don't drive from DC to NYC so they can signal their independence. Pretty much, they don't drive from DC to NYC at all." Having driven that route many times over taking the train I can tell you this is false. The prices of Acela is more then double what is normal in Europe for similar length train routes and better service. It is cheaper to rent a car and drive even for a single person and if you have 2 or more people it is significantly cheaper.
- rsync 9y ago
  "Where HSR is feasible and built out in the US, it gets used." Where is this ? Epcot center ? I don't know of any actual high speed rail in the United States. Acela most certainly isn't ...
throwaway91111 9y ago
Ehh, i don't buy this. It may be true for continental rail but not regional.
magila 9y ago
The really frustrating thing about Caltrain is that it shouldn't even be that dependent on subsidies. Caltrain riders are mostly affluent professionals commuting from the peninsula suburbs. These people (and I am one of them) are perfectly capable of paying for upgrades directly via fares, but for political reasons prices are kept far too low.
SilasX 9y ago
Might need to put some provisos on those plane tickets. I've known some Americans who have traveled to Europe planning to just take Uber everywhere, even when it would be faster and cheaper to take transit, not to mention more fulfilling. (The U.K. transit employees who don't mention the Oyster card aren't helping either.)
grecy 9y ago
> people don't see themselves using such things What? You think people don't want to take train that goes ~200 mp/h ? Riding the bullet train in China when I was there in 1998 was awesome!

tptacek 9y ago

I do not think this is true. I think people have an easier time seeing themselves in an Acela car than they do in a Jetblue seat --- which is part of why the Acela is so popular. People don't drive from DC to NYC so they can signal their independence. Pretty much, they don't drive from DC to NYC at all. Where HSR is feasible and built out in the US, it gets used. The problem is, HSR isn't feasible for the most economically important routes in the US. You can get from London to Paris in 3 hours on a train, and from Paris to Frankfurt in about 5. Almost as a rule, the most economically central European cities are closer to each other by rail than the most important American cities are --- excepting the Eastern Seaboard, where we have rail --- by air.

meddlepal 9y ago
Have you ridden Acela and done so frequently? It's not that great of an experience of you haven't. Expensive and often delayed.
- wyclif 9y ago
  Expensive, often delayed, people noisy and talking loudly in the so-called "quiet car", slow to non-existent internet connectivity, etc.
  - r00fus 9y ago
    Do you rely on provided internet? Doesn't your phone LTE work well?
efuquen 9y ago
"People don't drive from DC to NYC so they can signal their independence. Pretty much, they don't drive from DC to NYC at all." Having driven that route many times over taking the train I can tell you this is false. The prices of Acela is more then double what is normal in Europe for similar length train routes and better service. It is cheaper to rent a car and drive even for a single person and if you have 2 or more people it is significantly cheaper.
rsync 9y ago
"Where HSR is feasible and built out in the US, it gets used." Where is this ? Epcot center ? I don't know of any actual high speed rail in the United States. Acela most certainly isn't ...

throwaway91111 9y ago

Ehh, i don't buy this. It may be true for continental rail but not regional.

magila 9y ago

The really frustrating thing about Caltrain is that it shouldn't even be that dependent on subsidies. Caltrain riders are mostly affluent professionals commuting from the peninsula suburbs. These people (and I am one of them) are perfectly capable of paying for upgrades directly via fares, but for political reasons prices are kept far too low.

SilasX 9y ago

Might need to put some provisos on those plane tickets. I've known some Americans who have traveled to Europe planning to just take Uber everywhere, even when it would be faster and cheaper to take transit, not to mention more fulfilling. (The U.K. transit employees who don't mention the Oyster card aren't helping either.)

grecy 9y ago

> people don't see themselves using such things What? You think people don't want to take train that goes ~200 mp/h ? Riding the bullet train in China when I was there in 1998 was awesome!