4 ms·

And the same time spent in a train can be productive. In a car, it's just a complete waste.

by Scarblac 9y ago

closeparen 9y ago
On which systems is it the norm for train commuters to get seats? Or can they be productive in standing room somehow?
- Scarblac 9y ago
  I'm in the Netherlands, where I spend some extra money to get a 1st class ticket (because that has the room to work on a laptop), and I nearly always have a seat in that. I guess during rush hour about a fifth of the rest has to stand, true. Even if you have to stand now and then, you can use an ereader.
  - closeparen 9y ago
    I think there'd be riots if any US city proposed class-segregated seats on its public transit system. Though I would love it. I'd pay almost as much for a guaranteed seat on BART as I would for a car.
    - CydeWeys 9y ago
      Some of the commuter rail systems in the US do have class-based systems. Heavy rail (rapid transit aka "the subway") does not, but that's more about the particularities of how heavy rail works. We tolerate different pricing for various classes of seats in concerts, trains, buses, airplanes, pretty much everything imaginable. I don't see why commuter rail would be any different.
      - closeparen 9y ago
        Heavy rail is a taxpayer-funded government service, provided by governments with particularly liberal electorates (large dense cities). One of its key selling points, among certain constituents, is as an equalizer: getting the rich out their Audis and into the same miserable conditions as everyone else. I think most people who can't afford first class on airlines do resent it, but since airlines aren't state-owned and, more importantly, it's always been there (not a new proposal), there's not much they can do. Look at the popular outrage about scalping. People absolutely feel that you shouldn't be able to buy your way into a good seat, and instead ought to be lucky/first.
        CydeWeys 9y ago
        > provided by governments with particularly liberal electorates [...] One of its key selling points, among certain constituents, is as an equalizer: getting the rich out their Audis and into the same miserable conditions as everyone else. It's hard to take what you're saying seriously when you're so clearly biased towards one end of the political spectrum. The actual truth is much less political. Cities like New York City are way too dense for everyone to drive a personal vehicle, full stop, your non sequitur about Audis notwithstanding. Mass transit is the only transportation method that scales to handle a population the size of a large, dense city. Individual vehicle transportation does not. It doesn't matter if you're rich or poor, whether you're driving an Audi or a beater; if you're trying to drive to your job in the heart of Manhattan from the suburbs it's going to take you hours. Mass transit is the better choice for almost everyone.
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  I guess it depends on what you mean by productivity, but I can read a book while standing, I can read and respond to emails, and I can actually zone out and relax. In a car, I have to be on moderately high alert the entire time I'm driving, especially in traffic.
- CydeWeys 9y ago
  Every commuter rail system I can think of provides seats for passengers.
  - closeparen 9y ago
    Every commuter rail system I can think of has at least a 2:1 ratio of passengers to seats during commute hours.
    - CydeWeys 9y ago
      What systems are you thinking of? Because every commuter rail system I can think of has seats for almost everyone.
      - closeparen 9y ago
        MTA, CTA, Muni, BART, Caltrain.
        CydeWeys 9y ago
        Every time I've ever taken MTA Metro-North there's been more than enough seats available. It's one of the systems I was going to mention as having seats for passengers. There isn't even enough room in those trains for twice as many people to stand as have seats; it's basically an all-seating arrangement with an aisle for reaching the seats down the middle. Are you sure about your examples? Edit: And it's the exact same for the Long Island Railroad, which is the other major commuter rail system run by the MTA. They have a third system, the Staten Island Railway, but I've never taken it and thus can't comment.
        closeparen 9y ago
        I guess I'm talking about connectivity for outlying urban and inner suburban neighborhoods ("the subway") more than regional rail systems like LIRR or, in Chicago's case, Metra. It may actually be a good strategy to live even further from the city if it lets you switch from a crowded urban transit system to a more spacious suburban one.

And the same time spent in a train can be productive. In a car, it's just a complete waste.

closeparen 9y ago

On which systems is it the norm for train commuters to get seats? Or can they be productive in standing room somehow?

Scarblac 9y ago
I'm in the Netherlands, where I spend some extra money to get a 1st class ticket (because that has the room to work on a laptop), and I nearly always have a seat in that. I guess during rush hour about a fifth of the rest has to stand, true. Even if you have to stand now and then, you can use an ereader.
- closeparen 9y ago
  I think there'd be riots if any US city proposed class-segregated seats on its public transit system. Though I would love it. I'd pay almost as much for a guaranteed seat on BART as I would for a car.
  - CydeWeys 9y ago
    Some of the commuter rail systems in the US do have class-based systems. Heavy rail (rapid transit aka "the subway") does not, but that's more about the particularities of how heavy rail works. We tolerate different pricing for various classes of seats in concerts, trains, buses, airplanes, pretty much everything imaginable. I don't see why commuter rail would be any different.
    - closeparen 9y ago
      Heavy rail is a taxpayer-funded government service, provided by governments with particularly liberal electorates (large dense cities). One of its key selling points, among certain constituents, is as an equalizer: getting the rich out their Audis and into the same miserable conditions as everyone else. I think most people who can't afford first class on airlines do resent it, but since airlines aren't state-owned and, more importantly, it's always been there (not a new proposal), there's not much they can do. Look at the popular outrage about scalping. People absolutely feel that you shouldn't be able to buy your way into a good seat, and instead ought to be lucky/first.
      - CydeWeys 9y ago
        > provided by governments with particularly liberal electorates [...] One of its key selling points, among certain constituents, is as an equalizer: getting the rich out their Audis and into the same miserable conditions as everyone else. It's hard to take what you're saying seriously when you're so clearly biased towards one end of the political spectrum. The actual truth is much less political. Cities like New York City are way too dense for everyone to drive a personal vehicle, full stop, your non sequitur about Audis notwithstanding. Mass transit is the only transportation method that scales to handle a population the size of a large, dense city. Individual vehicle transportation does not. It doesn't matter if you're rich or poor, whether you're driving an Audi or a beater; if you're trying to drive to your job in the heart of Manhattan from the suburbs it's going to take you hours. Mass transit is the better choice for almost everyone.
pavel_lishin 9y ago
I guess it depends on what you mean by productivity, but I can read a book while standing, I can read and respond to emails, and I can actually zone out and relax. In a car, I have to be on moderately high alert the entire time I'm driving, especially in traffic.
CydeWeys 9y ago
Every commuter rail system I can think of provides seats for passengers.
- closeparen 9y ago
  Every commuter rail system I can think of has at least a 2:1 ratio of passengers to seats during commute hours.
  - CydeWeys 9y ago
    What systems are you thinking of? Because every commuter rail system I can think of has seats for almost everyone.
    - closeparen 9y ago
      MTA, CTA, Muni, BART, Caltrain.
      - CydeWeys 9y ago
        Every time I've ever taken MTA Metro-North there's been more than enough seats available. It's one of the systems I was going to mention as having seats for passengers. There isn't even enough room in those trains for twice as many people to stand as have seats; it's basically an all-seating arrangement with an aisle for reaching the seats down the middle. Are you sure about your examples? Edit: And it's the exact same for the Long Island Railroad, which is the other major commuter rail system run by the MTA. They have a third system, the Staten Island Railway, but I've never taken it and thus can't comment.
        closeparen 9y ago
        I guess I'm talking about connectivity for outlying urban and inner suburban neighborhoods ("the subway") more than regional rail systems like LIRR or, in Chicago's case, Metra. It may actually be a good strategy to live even further from the city if it lets you switch from a crowded urban transit system to a more spacious suburban one.