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I wonder if the USA will ever build and modernize its infrastructure? We're still coasting on what was built 50, 60, 70+ years ago. Then you travel to the res

I wonder if the USA will ever build and modernize its infrastructure? We're still coasting on what was built 50, 60, 70+ years ago. Then you travel to the rest of the developed world, and wow, what a difference in infrastructure.

protomyth 9y ago
The US picked cargo over people for rail. The US has an amazing logistics system comprising of truck, rail, barge, and air. Some people are working on adding drones. Not having passenger rail was a choice. Automated cars and the potential of Hyperloop might seriously change people's opinion of passenger rail.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- will_pseudonym 9y ago
  FWIW, automated cars make passenger rail less appealing.
- someguydave 9y ago
  Yes, passenger rail and freight rail don't mix very well. Passenger trains are generally slower and more expensive than airplanes, except maybe through high population density areas.
  - protomyth 9y ago
    Scheduling is also problematic, particularly when you have a lot of local restrictions from cities and market changes that require freight rail to increase or just plain harvest.
- tptacek 9y ago
  Having just spent a couple weeks driving around Germany and Austria: it's hard, if you haven't done it before, to appreciate just how strong America's road system is until you drive in Europe. German highways are excellent, of course; marginally better than our own (the worst traffic jam I've ever been in was 30 minutes outside of Munich, but, whatever). But the European highway network is sparser than the American network, and once you're off the highway, it's significantly worse (though more scenic, and much more "fun" to drive on.)
  - CalRobert 9y ago
    "though more scenic, and much more "fun" to drive on." How is it worse, though? I have always been very happy with the continent's motorways but that's always been in the context of going on holidays. I also found German highways to be _profoundly_ superior to those in the US. They: 1) Are far, far better paved 2) Are populated with people who know how to signal, and tha the left lane is for passing 3) Are not shoved through the middle of towns, and instead go around them so as not to destroy them, as towns in the US have been destroyed.
    - tptacek 9y ago
      Virtually all roads between towns in the US, even in rural areas, are divided 2 lane roads. Even in Germany and Austria, which have the best roads in Europe, that's not even routinely true. We stayed for a week just outside of Amstetten, Austria, and I drove into Styria and around lower Austria, and even on long-distance runs, I found myself routinely on roads marked 100km/h that couldn't safely accommodate two cars. Of your 3 arguments in favor of German highways --- which, again, I agree are better than those of the US --- 2 have nothing intrinsically to do with the roads. The one point you do make about German roads is that they're better maintained. Well, that's probably true on the average --- but that's because the US has far more highways than Germany does; the US highway network is denser. If you confined your analysis to the N best-maintained US highways, that might not remain true anymore.
      - gsnedders 9y ago
        > I found myself routinely on roads marked 100km/h that couldn't safely accommodate two cars. It's worthwhile pointing out that it's fairly normal outside of built up areas in Europe to just have a standard speed limit (often 100 km/h) apply regardless of road conditions: it's simply down to the driver to drive to the conditions. There's plenty of roads around here where you'll struggle to do 30km/h safely, but legally it's 100km/h limit; my experience in various parts of the US would suggest they'd probably have a 30km/h or lower limit there. I'm surprised you found so many roads that couldn't safely accommodate two cars on any significant route, though!
- cylinder 9y ago
  Keep dreaming and buying into whatever fantasy rich people keep selling. Hyperloop isn't even a thing and neither are driverless cars. Even if we get fully automated cars the roads will stay congested.
  - protomyth 9y ago
    I get the feeling driver-less cars are going to be a thing given all the money. I do wish we could have some standards for "annotating" the roads with useful beacons to help things along, but the money is probably going to talk. If driver-less cars appear, I do expect roads to flow a bit better just because of proper grouping and better coordinated exit / entrances. Yes, the Hyperloop is pretty iffy, but at least it won't conflict with freight rail.
  - pavel_lishin 9y ago
    Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible.
  - sand500 9y ago
    Driverless cars have the same appeal as private commuter shuttles which is you get back the time you are stuck in traffic
epistasis 9y ago
We'd have to stop spending so much on the military, and instead spend it on that infrastructure. That would require massive political changes and leadership. Definitely possible but unlikely with our current cast of players.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

protomyth 9y ago

The US picked cargo over people for rail. The US has an amazing logistics system comprising of truck, rail, barge, and air. Some people are working on adding drones. Not having passenger rail was a choice. Automated cars and the potential of Hyperloop might seriously change people's opinion of passenger rail.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
will_pseudonym 9y ago
FWIW, automated cars make passenger rail less appealing.
someguydave 9y ago
Yes, passenger rail and freight rail don't mix very well. Passenger trains are generally slower and more expensive than airplanes, except maybe through high population density areas.
- protomyth 9y ago
  Scheduling is also problematic, particularly when you have a lot of local restrictions from cities and market changes that require freight rail to increase or just plain harvest.
tptacek 9y ago
Having just spent a couple weeks driving around Germany and Austria: it's hard, if you haven't done it before, to appreciate just how strong America's road system is until you drive in Europe. German highways are excellent, of course; marginally better than our own (the worst traffic jam I've ever been in was 30 minutes outside of Munich, but, whatever). But the European highway network is sparser than the American network, and once you're off the highway, it's significantly worse (though more scenic, and much more "fun" to drive on.)
- CalRobert 9y ago
  "though more scenic, and much more "fun" to drive on." How is it worse, though? I have always been very happy with the continent's motorways but that's always been in the context of going on holidays. I also found German highways to be _profoundly_ superior to those in the US. They: 1) Are far, far better paved 2) Are populated with people who know how to signal, and tha the left lane is for passing 3) Are not shoved through the middle of towns, and instead go around them so as not to destroy them, as towns in the US have been destroyed.
  - tptacek 9y ago
    Virtually all roads between towns in the US, even in rural areas, are divided 2 lane roads. Even in Germany and Austria, which have the best roads in Europe, that's not even routinely true. We stayed for a week just outside of Amstetten, Austria, and I drove into Styria and around lower Austria, and even on long-distance runs, I found myself routinely on roads marked 100km/h that couldn't safely accommodate two cars. Of your 3 arguments in favor of German highways --- which, again, I agree are better than those of the US --- 2 have nothing intrinsically to do with the roads. The one point you do make about German roads is that they're better maintained. Well, that's probably true on the average --- but that's because the US has far more highways than Germany does; the US highway network is denser. If you confined your analysis to the N best-maintained US highways, that might not remain true anymore.
    - gsnedders 9y ago
      > I found myself routinely on roads marked 100km/h that couldn't safely accommodate two cars. It's worthwhile pointing out that it's fairly normal outside of built up areas in Europe to just have a standard speed limit (often 100 km/h) apply regardless of road conditions: it's simply down to the driver to drive to the conditions. There's plenty of roads around here where you'll struggle to do 30km/h safely, but legally it's 100km/h limit; my experience in various parts of the US would suggest they'd probably have a 30km/h or lower limit there. I'm surprised you found so many roads that couldn't safely accommodate two cars on any significant route, though!
cylinder 9y ago
Keep dreaming and buying into whatever fantasy rich people keep selling. Hyperloop isn't even a thing and neither are driverless cars. Even if we get fully automated cars the roads will stay congested.
- protomyth 9y ago
  I get the feeling driver-less cars are going to be a thing given all the money. I do wish we could have some standards for "annotating" the roads with useful beacons to help things along, but the money is probably going to talk. If driver-less cars appear, I do expect roads to flow a bit better just because of proper grouping and better coordinated exit / entrances. Yes, the Hyperloop is pretty iffy, but at least it won't conflict with freight rail.
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible.
- sand500 9y ago
  Driverless cars have the same appeal as private commuter shuttles which is you get back the time you are stuck in traffic

epistasis 9y ago

We'd have to stop spending so much on the military, and instead spend it on that infrastructure. That would require massive political changes and leadership. Definitely possible but unlikely with our current cast of players.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]