11 ms·

The Human Rights of Women Entrepreneurs by Reid Hoffman

31 points by dankohn1 9y ago

jacquesm 9y ago
Human -> all sexes. Women -> one sex. If you're going to talk about Human Rights then by definition you can't be talking about a single gender.
- eigenstuff 9y ago
  So... a bunch of school girls in Africa being kidnapped and raped and forced into marriages can't be considered a violation of their human rights because those responsible didn't do the same to little school boys, too?
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    No, obviously not. All cows are animals not all animals are cows kind of difference. Really, is it that hard? There are no specific Human Rights of Women Entrepreneurs, there are only Human rights of all Humans including Women Entrepreneurs. That women entrepreneurs have human rights need not be stated because they are humans too. Which by the way the article uses as a hook but then totally fails to expand on.
    - zdean 9y ago
      Focus doesn't mean exclusion. (borrowed)
      - jacquesm 9y ago
        Neither does it mean extrapolation beyond intended use. If we're going to try to re-frame the whole tech issue with being hostile to women as a human rights issue then we have bigger problems. It's assholes being assholes, they're not going to be impressed by any appeal to higher morality such as the human rights. Besides that plenty of corporations make large amounts of money because they trample those very human rights. If you want to go down that road then what we are looking at right now is a 'first world problem' and can be safely ignored until we've brought the rest of the world up to the level where they can complain about how the women in their tech sector are being dealt with. The way I see it is simple: shine as much light as possible on those that are actually committing these acts so that it can be made perfectly clear that such behavior is absolutely unacceptable. No violation of human rights needs to be implied, this is simply a case of inter-human error and frankly a lack of education. If you're a guy in tech treat women (and in general others) the way you'd want your mom or dad or brother or sister to be treated. That single rule should make things a lot better.
        zdean 9y ago
        "... then we have bigger problems." Yes, I think this is precisely the point of this issue...that the problem IS bigger than just some outlier assholes and extends to a systemic bias/-ism towards women in tech and probably many (most?) other industries. Which, if true, necessitates that we frame the problem as an attack on the human rights of 1/2 the population.
  - lemonsqueeze 9y ago
    Those girls in that scenario were all RELEASED in Nigeria. They only kidnapped those girls because the West did not care about them kidnapping and murdering boys. Nice try. But those girls in Nigeria were released and told to go home and make good families. The Matriarchy is strong.
- greglindahl 9y ago
  If you read Reid's posting, once he gets out of the intro he suggests gender-neutral rules. And the intro is about the actual recent news. And the title appears to be a reference to a famous speech on human rights from 1995.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    Unacceptable workplace behavior is as old as time, tech is no exception though it is in some sense worse than others but I've seen the exact same thing in finance, automotive, industry and entertainment. The fact that a couple of visible-in-tech people have their 'seen the light' moment is great but they only have that because a few women have been brave enough to stand up and make it stick. But if you want something to change for the better in the longer term and not just a couple of somewhat visible males to score easy points by taking this up because it happens to be the story of the day then it simply starts with each of us, men and women alike to not accept this kind of bull-shit in any circumstance and in any sector. Because what you see in tech is an outgrowth of something that is strongly present in our societies as a whole and ignoring that fact. The title seems to single out women entrepreneurs as if that's somehow the class that has the biggest problem but it really isn't that simple, in fact those women that have made it to the level of independent business owner are generally going to be very well placed to push back compared to those women who are in regular employment. Sexism is a societal problem, not a tech problem and as long as we're trying to frame this as a tech problem affecting a few women entrepreneurs we are very much missing the bigger picture with possibly disastrous consequences.
    - greglindahl 9y ago
      My point was that you were misrepresenting what Reid Hoffman said. Is this an answer to my point? I guess your 4th and 5th paragraphs finally get there, but I don't read Reid's statement as saying what you think it does. Why don't you directly discuss the issues instead of trying to complain about your reading of Reid Hoffman's words supposedly framing the problem incorrectly?
    - rectang 9y ago
      > Sexism is a societal problem, not a tech problem While I agree that it's a societal problem, I think such issues primarily manifest in pockets of monoculture and insularity. Tech teams often have wildly skewed gender disparity ratios, making them particularly susceptible.
- rectang 9y ago
  Your critique of Hoffman seems like a tactical disagreement rather than a strategic one. Hoffman is standing up to be counted -- just as you have, repeatedly. I wish both of you would get cut a little more slack. At least neither of you is minimizing the problem.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    But that's exactly my problem with him: he is minimizing the problem. The title speaks of 'women entrepreneurs', rather than women in society in general, which is where the problems are felt, at all layers of society and across all races as far as I'm aware. By minimizing the problem to reduce it to an absurdly small portion of all women who are experiencing a continuous stream of trouble is exactly why we will not solve this like this.
rectang 9y ago
> YES, MANY OF US DO CARE But this story will still be flagged off the HN front page in 5, 4, 3... The amount that we care is greater than it appears. EDIT: Called it.
zdean 9y ago
"I don't often write immediate reactions to recent news." This is a peculiar statement to start with. Was this "news" because it only now came to his attention via this particular article. Was the head of the largest social network dedicated to the "world's professionals to make them more productive and successful" ignorant to the reality that half of them were facing in HIS industry for so long or was it simply not an issue to him until it was reported (for the umpteenth time) in this news article? While I'm glad he's at least now publicly acknowledging the problem, I think it'd be great for the men who want to solve this problem for women to be a bit more humble, sit down, and listen to how women would like their human rights acknowledged and respected.
jbmorgado 9y ago
Came here for the hacker news but all I got lately is some people desperate need for virtue signaling. Seriously, at least allows the ones of us that come here for the actual "Hacker News" to filter out titles containing some words. And then, everyone has peace, simple. Think about it, some groups get to push their agenda and the ones here for the interesting stuff get to use the site in peacefully, something their are barred to do for a long time now. Everyone get's to be happy that way and the flame wars basically end.
- lazyasciiart 9y ago
  Anyone who can benefit from Hacker News can figure out how to filter posts for themselves.
Mz 9y ago
This is what I wrote earlier in reaction to this piece, then decided to not post for REASONS, but given how this is going, I am going to throw it out there now: Oh, give me a break. This piece posits that we need to punish male VCs who sexually harass female applicants. First of all, this approach (of doing things like basically boycotting them) is so ridiculous and impractical that it amounts to saying "I want you to think I am a highly ethical person, but I don't actually want to do anything about the problem. I just want to say things that sound good so I will look good." Second, it gives zero remedy to the women who were seeking funds from VCs. A much, much better answer would be to find a solution that involves getting money into the hands of the female entrepreneurs who not only had to put up with this shit, but also (in most cases) did NOT get funding from these men who see them as nothing but sex objects. Failing to find a means to get more funding into the hands of female entrepreneurs also de facto reinforces the current status quo. Advocating some kind of punishment for the men who assaulted them while doing nothing to remedy the material harm done to their career aspirations makes you part of the problem, not part of the solution. I don't really care if any men get hung high here. What I really care about is how in the hell do women get more opportunities? And everyone is so focused on being angry and outraged and also outraged at the presumed lack of outrage that no one can be bothered to do anything about this critical piece of the puzzle. Yet, it is the single most important thing here and it is the one thing I never see anyone talk about at all. Why is no one starting a fund to get monies into the hands of female entrepreneurs in the face of this problem? I am not seeing that piece happen. Am I wrong? If I am wrong, please link me to the fund that someone has started to get money into the hands of women in the face of this.
- xxSparkleSxx 9y ago
  >I don't really care if any men get hung high here. What I really care about is how in the hell do women get more opportunities? Oh, give me a break. You lose all credibility when your solution to sexism is more sexism. Get off your fucking high horse. Why aren't you out meeting with investors to start a fund aimed at women entrepreuers? Oh because ou want the karma of talking the talk but don't want to get off your fucking ass and do anything.
  - 9y ago
lemonsqueeze 9y ago
Reid can't get laid. So he thinks Whiteknighting and virtue signalling will make him more attractive.
rdiddly 9y ago
Takes me to a LinkedIn sign-in page. "I guess I'll never know."

31 points by dankohn1 9y ago

Human -> all sexes. Women -> one sex. If you're going to talk about Human Rights then by definition you can't be talking about a single gender.

eigenstuff 9y ago
So... a bunch of school girls in Africa being kidnapped and raped and forced into marriages can't be considered a violation of their human rights because those responsible didn't do the same to little school boys, too?
- jacquesm 9y ago
  No, obviously not. All cows are animals not all animals are cows kind of difference. Really, is it that hard? There are no specific Human Rights of Women Entrepreneurs, there are only Human rights of all Humans including Women Entrepreneurs. That women entrepreneurs have human rights need not be stated because they are humans too. Which by the way the article uses as a hook but then totally fails to expand on.
  - zdean 9y ago
    Focus doesn't mean exclusion. (borrowed)
    - jacquesm 9y ago
      Neither does it mean extrapolation beyond intended use. If we're going to try to re-frame the whole tech issue with being hostile to women as a human rights issue then we have bigger problems. It's assholes being assholes, they're not going to be impressed by any appeal to higher morality such as the human rights. Besides that plenty of corporations make large amounts of money because they trample those very human rights. If you want to go down that road then what we are looking at right now is a 'first world problem' and can be safely ignored until we've brought the rest of the world up to the level where they can complain about how the women in their tech sector are being dealt with. The way I see it is simple: shine as much light as possible on those that are actually committing these acts so that it can be made perfectly clear that such behavior is absolutely unacceptable. No violation of human rights needs to be implied, this is simply a case of inter-human error and frankly a lack of education. If you're a guy in tech treat women (and in general others) the way you'd want your mom or dad or brother or sister to be treated. That single rule should make things a lot better.
      - zdean 9y ago
        "... then we have bigger problems." Yes, I think this is precisely the point of this issue...that the problem IS bigger than just some outlier assholes and extends to a systemic bias/-ism towards women in tech and probably many (most?) other industries. Which, if true, necessitates that we frame the problem as an attack on the human rights of 1/2 the population.
- lemonsqueeze 9y ago
  Those girls in that scenario were all RELEASED in Nigeria. They only kidnapped those girls because the West did not care about them kidnapping and murdering boys. Nice try. But those girls in Nigeria were released and told to go home and make good families. The Matriarchy is strong.
greglindahl 9y ago
If you read Reid's posting, once he gets out of the intro he suggests gender-neutral rules. And the intro is about the actual recent news. And the title appears to be a reference to a famous speech on human rights from 1995.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  Unacceptable workplace behavior is as old as time, tech is no exception though it is in some sense worse than others but I've seen the exact same thing in finance, automotive, industry and entertainment. The fact that a couple of visible-in-tech people have their 'seen the light' moment is great but they only have that because a few women have been brave enough to stand up and make it stick. But if you want something to change for the better in the longer term and not just a couple of somewhat visible males to score easy points by taking this up because it happens to be the story of the day then it simply starts with each of us, men and women alike to not accept this kind of bull-shit in any circumstance and in any sector. Because what you see in tech is an outgrowth of something that is strongly present in our societies as a whole and ignoring that fact. The title seems to single out women entrepreneurs as if that's somehow the class that has the biggest problem but it really isn't that simple, in fact those women that have made it to the level of independent business owner are generally going to be very well placed to push back compared to those women who are in regular employment. Sexism is a societal problem, not a tech problem and as long as we're trying to frame this as a tech problem affecting a few women entrepreneurs we are very much missing the bigger picture with possibly disastrous consequences.
  - greglindahl 9y ago
    My point was that you were misrepresenting what Reid Hoffman said. Is this an answer to my point? I guess your 4th and 5th paragraphs finally get there, but I don't read Reid's statement as saying what you think it does. Why don't you directly discuss the issues instead of trying to complain about your reading of Reid Hoffman's words supposedly framing the problem incorrectly?
  - rectang 9y ago
    > Sexism is a societal problem, not a tech problem While I agree that it's a societal problem, I think such issues primarily manifest in pockets of monoculture and insularity. Tech teams often have wildly skewed gender disparity ratios, making them particularly susceptible.
rectang 9y ago
Your critique of Hoffman seems like a tactical disagreement rather than a strategic one. Hoffman is standing up to be counted -- just as you have, repeatedly. I wish both of you would get cut a little more slack. At least neither of you is minimizing the problem.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  But that's exactly my problem with him: he is minimizing the problem. The title speaks of 'women entrepreneurs', rather than women in society in general, which is where the problems are felt, at all layers of society and across all races as far as I'm aware. By minimizing the problem to reduce it to an absurdly small portion of all women who are experiencing a continuous stream of trouble is exactly why we will not solve this like this.

rectang 9y ago

> YES, MANY OF US DO CARE But this story will still be flagged off the HN front page in 5, 4, 3... The amount that we care is greater than it appears. EDIT: Called it.

zdean 9y ago

"I don't often write immediate reactions to recent news." This is a peculiar statement to start with. Was this "news" because it only now came to his attention via this particular article. Was the head of the largest social network dedicated to the "world's professionals to make them more productive and successful" ignorant to the reality that half of them were facing in HIS industry for so long or was it simply not an issue to him until it was reported (for the umpteenth time) in this news article? While I'm glad he's at least now publicly acknowledging the problem, I think it'd be great for the men who want to solve this problem for women to be a bit more humble, sit down, and listen to how women would like their human rights acknowledged and respected.

jbmorgado 9y ago

Came here for the hacker news but all I got lately is some people desperate need for virtue signaling. Seriously, at least allows the ones of us that come here for the actual "Hacker News" to filter out titles containing some words. And then, everyone has peace, simple. Think about it, some groups get to push their agenda and the ones here for the interesting stuff get to use the site in peacefully, something their are barred to do for a long time now. Everyone get's to be happy that way and the flame wars basically end.

lazyasciiart 9y ago
Anyone who can benefit from Hacker News can figure out how to filter posts for themselves.

Mz 9y ago

This is what I wrote earlier in reaction to this piece, then decided to not post for REASONS, but given how this is going, I am going to throw it out there now: Oh, give me a break. This piece posits that we need to punish male VCs who sexually harass female applicants. First of all, this approach (of doing things like basically boycotting them) is so ridiculous and impractical that it amounts to saying "I want you to think I am a highly ethical person, but I don't actually want to do anything about the problem. I just want to say things that sound good so I will look good." Second, it gives zero remedy to the women who were seeking funds from VCs. A much, much better answer would be to find a solution that involves getting money into the hands of the female entrepreneurs who not only had to put up with this shit, but also (in most cases) did NOT get funding from these men who see them as nothing but sex objects. Failing to find a means to get more funding into the hands of female entrepreneurs also de facto reinforces the current status quo. Advocating some kind of punishment for the men who assaulted them while doing nothing to remedy the material harm done to their career aspirations makes you part of the problem, not part of the solution. I don't really care if any men get hung high here. What I really care about is how in the hell do women get more opportunities? And everyone is so focused on being angry and outraged and also outraged at the presumed lack of outrage that no one can be bothered to do anything about this critical piece of the puzzle. Yet, it is the single most important thing here and it is the one thing I never see anyone talk about at all. Why is no one starting a fund to get monies into the hands of female entrepreneurs in the face of this problem? I am not seeing that piece happen. Am I wrong? If I am wrong, please link me to the fund that someone has started to get money into the hands of women in the face of this.

xxSparkleSxx 9y ago
>I don't really care if any men get hung high here. What I really care about is how in the hell do women get more opportunities? Oh, give me a break. You lose all credibility when your solution to sexism is more sexism. Get off your fucking high horse. Why aren't you out meeting with investors to start a fund aimed at women entrepreuers? Oh because ou want the karma of talking the talk but don't want to get off your fucking ass and do anything.
- 9y ago

lemonsqueeze 9y ago

Reid can't get laid. So he thinks Whiteknighting and virtue signalling will make him more attractive.

rdiddly 9y ago

Takes me to a LinkedIn sign-in page. "I guess I'll never know."