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I suspect that in reality, this would be far more complicated than your comment gives credit for. How do you determine what coins have been through a mixer? By

by e79 9y ago

I suspect that in reality, this would be far more complicated than your comment gives credit for. How do you determine what coins have been through a mixer? By looking at tx inputs and going back all the way to when those coins were mined into existence? What if an innocent wallet happens to receive "dirty" coins even when the wallet holder themselves has done nothing wrong? Who would be in the charge of enforcing this? The network? The exchanges? If this is done at the exchange-level, what's stopping someone from simply cashing out via Amazon gift cards or the like through a non-traditional exchange service? The list goes on. This is not a simple problem. I personally don't believe private or public regulation is the answer.

sillysaurus3 9y ago
Every one of your questions has straightforward answers: > How do you determine what coins have been through a mixer? By looking at tx inputs and going back all the way to when those coins were mined into existence? Graph the blockchain. This isn't a new idea. There are several visualizations that have already popped up showing who is sending coins to who. Mixers show up as a giant tumbleweed shape in these. > What if an innocent wallet happens to receive "dirty" coins even when the wallet holder themselves has done nothing wrong? For one, you'd need to send them a massive amount of money to taint their stash. For two, simply send back the coins to clear your name. The point is that it's relatively easy to detect when an account is receiving coins primarily from a mixer. > Who would be in the charge of enforcing this? The network? The exchanges? The exchanges. > If this is done at the exchange-level, what's stopping someone from simply cashing out via Amazon gift cards or the like through a non-traditional exchange service? The price of mixed coins will plummet if exchanges refuse to deal with them. Remember "GoxCoins"? Same thing. Non-traditional avenues aren't an escape from these forces when everyone agrees they're relatively worthless. All in all, the above proposal is no more difficult than implementing the fraud detection prevalent in most financial companies. I'm pretty sure people are being evasive solely because they don't like the idea, not because it's difficult. It seems like a bad idea to refuse to take it seriously.
- unclebucknasty 9y ago
  >simply send back the coins to clear your name Earnest question: if someone sent you coins, wasn't it presumably in exchange for something? If so, doesn't that complicate the idea of simply sending them back (without incurring a loss)?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- Frogolocalypse 9y ago
  > The exchanges. Without controlling all of the exchanges, including the anonymous ones, and track every other alt-coin blockchain, and every miner that has ever produced a coin in one of those blockchains, including the ones that are specifically designed to be impossible to track, you have nothing. More the point, everyone who has chosen to actually validate this for themselves knows this already. You're raising points that were some of the talking points in crypto about four years ago. Indeed many of these points have already had specific implementations that exist now to counteract any possibility of a potential weak point for the things you're hypothesizing. With the implementation of "atomic swaps" and lightning this will further make control of the type you envisage even more impossible to do. And for all intents and purposes, it's impossible to do now.
  - asdfaoeu 9y ago
    What incentive is there for an exchange to implement this?
    - Frogolocalypse 9y ago
      Being entirely objective, the ability to convert to fiat.
- resf 9y ago
  > > Who would be in the charge of enforcing this? The network? > The exchanges. Any exchange stupid enough to enact such a policy would go out of business immediately. Their competitors would eat them alive.

by e79 9y ago

sillysaurus3 9y ago

Every one of your questions has straightforward answers: > How do you determine what coins have been through a mixer? By looking at tx inputs and going back all the way to when those coins were mined into existence? Graph the blockchain. This isn't a new idea. There are several visualizations that have already popped up showing who is sending coins to who. Mixers show up as a giant tumbleweed shape in these. > What if an innocent wallet happens to receive "dirty" coins even when the wallet holder themselves has done nothing wrong? For one, you'd need to send them a massive amount of money to taint their stash. For two, simply send back the coins to clear your name. The point is that it's relatively easy to detect when an account is receiving coins primarily from a mixer. > Who would be in the charge of enforcing this? The network? The exchanges? The exchanges. > If this is done at the exchange-level, what's stopping someone from simply cashing out via Amazon gift cards or the like through a non-traditional exchange service? The price of mixed coins will plummet if exchanges refuse to deal with them. Remember "GoxCoins"? Same thing. Non-traditional avenues aren't an escape from these forces when everyone agrees they're relatively worthless. All in all, the above proposal is no more difficult than implementing the fraud detection prevalent in most financial companies. I'm pretty sure people are being evasive solely because they don't like the idea, not because it's difficult. It seems like a bad idea to refuse to take it seriously.

unclebucknasty 9y ago
>simply send back the coins to clear your name Earnest question: if someone sent you coins, wasn't it presumably in exchange for something? If so, doesn't that complicate the idea of simply sending them back (without incurring a loss)?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
Frogolocalypse 9y ago
> The exchanges. Without controlling all of the exchanges, including the anonymous ones, and track every other alt-coin blockchain, and every miner that has ever produced a coin in one of those blockchains, including the ones that are specifically designed to be impossible to track, you have nothing. More the point, everyone who has chosen to actually validate this for themselves knows this already. You're raising points that were some of the talking points in crypto about four years ago. Indeed many of these points have already had specific implementations that exist now to counteract any possibility of a potential weak point for the things you're hypothesizing. With the implementation of "atomic swaps" and lightning this will further make control of the type you envisage even more impossible to do. And for all intents and purposes, it's impossible to do now.
- asdfaoeu 9y ago
  What incentive is there for an exchange to implement this?
  - Frogolocalypse 9y ago
    Being entirely objective, the ability to convert to fiat.
resf 9y ago
> > Who would be in the charge of enforcing this? The network? > The exchanges. Any exchange stupid enough to enact such a policy would go out of business immediately. Their competitors would eat them alive.