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Walmart threatens to cut ties with truckers that also haul for Amazon
- oliv__ 9y agoI feel like truckers should tell Walmart to shove it. This is getting abusive
- RubenSandwich 9y agoUnfortunately, truckers don't usually have that option as they are often times wages slaves to their jobs through debt by being forced to buy their semi truck: https://www.usatoday.com/pages/interactives/news/rigged-forced-into-debt-worked-past-exhaustion-left-with-nothing/ https://www.usatoday.com/pages/interactives/news/rigged-forc....
- partisan 9y agoIn the short term, this could benefit the truckers. Rates may go up as each of the larger customers raises rates to attract them. In the long term, truckers are best served by having competition in the marketplace. If there is only one big customer on the market then they have little chance of getting fair rates.
- AJ007 9y agoIn the long run, there are no truckers.
- austenallred 9y agoWalmart is lashing out like it already knows Amazon is going to win. The only play it has left is to bully partners.
- _delirium 9y agoThis isn't really new for Walmart. Their thing has long been to use their market position as something of a monopsonist to extract concessions from suppliers. Give us these things packaged differently, and for 7% less, and make some of them Walmart exclusives (you're not selling Target the same thing, are you??), or we won't sell your stuff anymore.
- AndrewKemendo 9y agoThe stories of the hoops that suppliers have to go through in Bentonville are legendary.
- syshum 9y ago>>The only play it has left is to bully partners That is the only play it has ever had... It has bullied its suppliers since almost day 1, Certainly since Sam Walton died... This is just an expansion of the bully tactics to other areas of the business beyond the Buyers, but it is not a new tactic. They used this tactic to great success to kill off a lot of competition in the Brick/Mortor Retail space.
- skinnymuch 9y agoEven with them historically always bullying businesses, this and the other recent stories certainly do feel like Walmart is acting like they have already lost to Amazon. I was hoping Walmart would get better in their fight against Amazon. Naive me hah! At least they are letting Lore handle online business for now.
- libeclipse 9y agoJeez. Walmart seem really damned insecure about themselves. This isn't the first petty BS they've come out with regarding Amazon.
- tyingq 9y agoThis is a bit different than their similar threat to suppliers that use AWS. The venn diagram of truckers that carry for each is likely just one circle. This would create a weird industry split since Amazon and Walmart are so dominant in volume of shipments. I wonder if this might be illegal even if it's not antitrust worthy.
- a3n 9y agoThat was my first thought: restraint of trade, or whatever someone who knows what they're talking about would call it. Besides, what is Walmart going to do when AmazonTrucking is the only trucking company left?
- Hemospectrum 9y agoFirst AWS, now this. At what point does the DOJ step in? Isn't this anticompetitive behavior? I've heard that Reagan-era deregulation changed a lot of the relevant law, but I'm not clear on how. Is Walmart doing this with the expectation of impunity because there's no longer a crime to charge them with, or because they see themselves as immune to prosecution?
- dman 9y agoHard to make the case that walmart is a monopoly. For what its worth amazon has pulled similar stunts like not selling the chromecast.
- fatjokes 9y agoI can see the argument* to say "we can't invest the work to support chromecast". Whereas it's harder to say "we won't talk to these other truckers who work with our competitor". *A argument, not one that would hold in court. IANAL. EDIT: It seems I misunderstood Amazon's lack of Chromecast support. I hadn't thought of trying to buy Chromecast through Amazon before. I own three of them and bought all through the Google store.
- riveted 9y agoThe work to support it? They just refused to list it on their marketplace/products
- ikeboy 9y agoThey banned even third party sellers from selling chromecast. You can sell basically whatever you want on their site, except for chromecast and apple tv. There are exceptions to "sell anything", but chromecast and apple tv are the only business exceptions, not based on safety/legallity/ authenticity etc.
- travem 9y agoI don't think this is about supporting chromecast for Amazon Video, it's about actually selling the google chromecast itself on amazon.com. I don't think there is any argument that passes the sniff test for them not to be able to sell a physical device like chromecast from amazon.com. The level of incremental work is basically zero to add an item into the store.
- ceejayoz 9y agoWill they include USPS, UPS, and FedEx in this?
- syshum 9y agoUSPS is barred by law from signing an exclusive contract like this, to Walmart would just have to refuse to use them. UPS and Fedex, I highly doubt either would agree to it, but it is not impossible to see one of them go with Walmart and One go with Amazon but highly unlikely
- thrillgore 9y agoWouldn't matter, Amazon is already singling out all three with LaserShip and its own Logistics firm. Did I mention how terrible AMZL is at their job? I spend the better part of a day tracking down a package marked as "delivered."
- morganvachon 9y agoThe last three packages I got from Amazon were late, even though they were Prime guaranteed. Only one of those was the fault of the carrier, the other two sat in the Amazon distribution center for the two guaranteed days, only making it to the carrier long after they should have been in my mailbox. While I was able to get an extension on my Prime membership all three times, I'm starting to wonder if I should just drop it altogether. Yes, the shipping is "free" even if it's late, but it's damned annoying when I try to plan around a guaranteed date that ends up anything but guaranteed.
- ceejayoz 9y agoI'm finding the "free" shipping to be less and less of a benefit now. It's frequently available from non-Prime sellers for cheaper (which generally works out to about the same cost when you figure in shipping).
- trentmb 9y agoAmazon prime started taking 5 days. I canceled. Orders now spend 3 days in waiting to ship, and then arrive 2 days after being marked as shipped.
- madamelic 9y ago"Amazon offers $0.10 more per mile, leaving Walmart with no truckers" But really, Wal-mart needs to get over themselves and do what they need to do to adapt, rather than being the bully they've always been. It isn't like they refuse technology, they have a pretty decent technology team as far as I can tell.
- user5994461 9y agoWhere did you read this quote?
- ryan-c 9y agoIt's not a quote, it's a possible response.
- mxstbr 9y agoExcept they don't anymore. They laid off ~1,000 employees in the HQ, many of them in their tech department. (Source: http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/01/20/wal-mart-begins-layoffs-at-headquarters.html http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/01/20/wal-mart-begin...) Disclaimer: Some of the workers that got laid off in that department were friends of mine.
- qmarchi 9y agoEven then, they still have an extremely competent technology division. And I can say that the number of persons laid off in that even were <500. Disclaimer: My mum was laid off in the event.
- fanpuns 9y agoIf this is true (keeping in mind the source is an analyst who is relating conversation between other parties for which they were not involved), it might not necessarily be a negative for the freight market. If the contractors become territorial about which freight companies they will hire it will effectively reduce the supply available for both (once a freight company commits to one or the other) meaning Walmart/Amazon will each have to pay more essentially for "exclusivity".
- kissickas 9y agoBut higher prices would also encourage Amazon to invest more in automating their fleet, at which point the market will collapse.
- fanpuns 9y agoIf Amazon invests in their own self-driving fleet, the whole discussion is basically moot. If instead (and maybe more likely) there are a small number of carriers who have invested in big fleets of self-driving trucks and Walmart/Amazon blackballs any carrier who works with the other side they would still be limiting the supply side of the market and have to pay more.
- petra 9y agoMoney isn't the thing that prevents self-driving trucks from becoming a reality.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- GCA10 9y agoThe comments on the original story are fascinating. Hundreds of truckers sharing personal stories. Their spelling is dodgy but many bring detailed personal data. From my read, it sounds as if Amazon has two business issues to fix (staggered scheduling and last-minute cancellations). Walmart seems to have infuriated truckers for more reasons than I can count. Not sure Walmart is going to like the outcome of this war.
- bedhead 9y agoThis is a misguided, myopic decision done out of sheer desperation. It's a symptom, not the disease.
- toomuchtodo 9y agoIt's not desperation, it's using your leverage to your advantage. Isn't that the smart business decision? How is that any different then Amazon, Uber, or anyone else deciding to raise prices once they're the dominant participant in their respective marketplace? "Competition is for losers." - Peter Thiel
- Upvoter33 9y agoYou misattributed the quote: ""Competition is for losers." - Peter Thiel." -Michael Scott. More seriously, I hate this quote, for so many reasons. Sure, it's great if you can do something no one else is doing and do it so well that no one can really compete with you. But there are plenty of people who compete with others and the world is often a better place as a result. It feels like people lose sight of the goals: not just becoming really wealthy, but perhaps serving the public?
- toomuchtodo 9y agoI agree with you entirely though. That's the problem: the delta between the way capitalism is current running and how it should. #LateStageCapitalismProblems
- solotronics 9y agofuck Walmart. You don't hear anything about Amazon workers being on public assistance because they are payed enough and get enough hours to survive on their own. Around the holidays Walmart takes food and toy donations for their workers inside their break rooms. It's a bad company and I hope it gets killed off.
- wcummings 9y agoHate to break it to you, but Amazon does not treat their warehouse staff much better.
- ceejayoz 9y agoAmazon has plenty of their own issues. http://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/life-and-death-amazon-temp/ http://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/life-and-deat... http://www.businessinsider.com/brutal-conditions-in-amazons-warehouses-2013-8 http://www.businessinsider.com/brutal-conditions-in-amazons-...
- giobox 9y agoI can't tell if this comment is sarcasm. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/11/amazon-accused-of-intolerable-conditions-at-scottish-warehouse https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/11/amazon-ac... http://www.businessinsider.com/brutal-conditions-in-amazons-warehouses-2013-8 http://www.businessinsider.com/brutal-conditions-in-amazons-... http://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/life-and-death-amazon-temp/ http://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/life-and-deat...
- StevePerkins 9y agoAmazon is as awful to their employees as any other retailer, and worse than many. There are pretty much only two only MAJOR retailers with good labor reputations. One is Costco, and that's only because they can run their business with a fraction of the employee-to-square-footage ratio that most retailers need. The other is Whole Foods... which has been getting worse for years, and will probably accelerate down that path now that they're owned by Amazon. It's a race to the bottom. There are no good guys.
- ctdonath 9y agoBoth may be reaching scales which strain the limits of the shipping industry. To retain needed capacity, each has to elbow the other out of the way, while they ramp up alternatives.
- __d__ 9y agoI've posted before about Walmart and I'll post here again. They routinely would pay us late and underpay invoices on delivered products. Sometimes racking up to $50-$100,000. The worst part for us is it would be an average of one year before they would pay it in full. You'd have to submit a claim and fill out endless paperwork to get paid. It was so hard on us as a company. You also had to pay them a per package fee that added up to a lot per year. No other company was doing this. With Walmart trucking things were worse. If we delivered a product and it arrived not well, you had limited options on checking the reasons why. Several times we wanted to pull the temp recorder and just by doing that Walmart charged us around $1000 if we lost. On several occasions our own temp recorders were taken off of our product and were lost when we challenged their rejection of product, and in this case we lost. Even though the product shipped pristine. When our temp recorders were found on the product it showed that it did not ship under the terms of the agreement. In this case we won. Again, to challenge this with Walmart I had to call or email more times then I could count. I always felt they purposely made it difficult.
- gech 9y agoDoes current economic theory include this common malfeasance among successful dominant businesses as efficient?
- kodablah 9y agoProbably just foretells the rise of competitors as is the case here.
- AndrewKemendo 9y agoCorrect. Rational Choice Theory would expect that sub-optimal or inefficient actions from a single party would drive counterparties to competitive parties.
- computerex 9y agoI don't think current economic theory even takes these common malfeasances into account. This is against the law, and so no widely accepted theory would even acknowledge this.
- CalChris 9y agoHow is this not restraint of trade? > Restraint of trade means any activity which tends to limit trade, sales and transportation in interstate commerce or has a substantial impact on interstate commerce. https://definitions.uslegal.com/r/restraint-of-trade/ https://definitions.uslegal.com/r/restraint-of-trade/
- Mediterraneo10 9y agoHow is this not tortious interference? Walmart seems to be making this threat in order to undermine the contract between these truckers and Amazon.
- markpapadakis 9y agoWhen you are desperate, you are acting irrationally and, definitely, absolutely, not thinking long-term, but counting on potential short-gains to survive, and looks like that's Whalmart is doing. They are doomed, of course, just a matter of how long it will take until they become irrelevant. And it's not like they couldn't study history or didn't have time or money to invest in whatever would have been required to mount a better defence, but in the end, hubris and misplaced confidence is going to claim another foolish company.
- CamperBob2 9y agoThey are doomed, of course, just a matter of how long it will take until they become irrelevant. And it's not like they couldn't study history or didn't have time or money to invest in whatever would have been required to mount a better defence, but in the end, hubris and misplaced confidence is going to claim another foolish company. +1. Not much you can say about Sears that you can't also say about WalMart.
- briHass 9y agoThat's a bit extreme. Walmart is the largest company in the world by revenue (by far), at over 4.5X what Amazon pulls in. They have almost 5000 locations in the US and an extra 4000 worldwide. They've spent the last few decades engaged in ruthless competition with small, local business, and for many, now represent the only game in town. They also have tons of exclusive arrangements with suppliers, logistics, and shipping. I'm not a huge fan of Walmart, but they definitely are positioned to weather quite a few storms. There's no doubt that they've been slow to move to the online space, but when they really focus on it, I think we'll see a very interesting fight with them and Amazon.
- m-p-3 9y agoHopefully this will backfire on Wal-mart.
- losteverything 9y agoI guess the cold war started. I hope it isn't true. Amazon is not walmarts enemy: they should focus on low prices and growth using new technology. Their ceo said they reached employment peak [1] Truckers and delivery people dont hate each other or have any competitive spirit among each other. Pay me to make a delivery. End of story. The ups and FedEx guy(s) and i all bitch about the same thing: why cant these healthy lazy people go to the store. Day after day the same people get packages. What do they do all day, shop$!! Its so funny it could make a screenplay. Truckers dont care either. [1] http://abcnews.go.com/amp/Business/wireStory/walmart-traditional-retailing-roots-competitive-advantage-47794226 http://abcnews.go.com/amp/Business/wireStory/walmart-traditi...
- nikofeyn 9y agoi order almost everything off amazon. i admit that i feel strange about this for many reasons, but laziness doesn't really come into play. time is the most valuable thing i have and stress is a major health issue. by ordering off of amazon i completely sidestep having to deal with traffic, lines, driving, miserable employees, poor service, not finding what i want, terrible products, etc. that's a lot of stress and time that i save by having packages delivered directly to me. whether that is a net gain or loss for society, i am not for sure, but it certainly is a net win for myself.
- drewbuschhorn 9y agoAlso you keep losteverything employed, and help the environment (for infrequently returned categories of purchase): http://ctl.mit.edu/sites/ctl.mit.edu/files/library/public/Dimitri-Weideli-Environmental-Analysis-of-US-Online-Shopping_0.pdf http://ctl.mit.edu/sites/ctl.mit.edu/files/library/public/Di... http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1361920912000521 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1361920912...
- losteverything 9y agoI am a hypocrite. I order too My point was that delivery people dont give each other the finger - we could care less. We talk shop amd know each other by name. I really doubt a trucker hauling today to a Amazon site and tomorrow to a walmart site cares. After years of delivering stuff people can buy we get jaded- and that is what we all complain about. (to ourselves) One example. Woman gets Fresh. Weekly. As carrier is lugging 4 green totes her adult son watches. The carrier is a 59 year old woman. After the last tote, the carrier says to the woman, "i know now why you order online- your son won't help you with the groceries."
- dredmorbius 9y agoThis is sttarting to read as a Thucydides Trap. Established power threatened by an upstart rival. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/09/united-states-china-war-thucydides-trap/406756/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/09/un...
- pasbesoin 9y agoSeems the FTC should step in here. Oh, wait. We have a "pro business" Administration and Congress. So, the big boys get to throw their weight around. bah P.S. These "big boys" should have to compete for truckers' services. Just like everyone else. On an ongoing bases... not some one-time commitment extorted solely to their advantage.