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Yes, they met as two professionals in the context of an open job position. Inappropriate move #1 was contacting the job applicant over FB, #2 was making a comme

Yes, they met as two professionals in the context of an open job position. Inappropriate move #1 was contacting the job applicant over FB, #2 was making a comment about whether or not to "hire" or "hit on" her. The fact that he places the chances of hiring her in relation to "hitting" on her is wildly inappropriate. If he wanted a relationship, there are infinitely better and more appropriate ways to go about it, especially if he thought she might actually be interested. Going via FB in the manner that he did is pure 100% creepy behavior.

FeatureRush 9y ago
> If he wanted a relationship, there are infinitely better and more appropriate ways to go about it, especially if he thought she might actually be interested. McClure aside, in general situation when during recruitment precess you meet someone you would like to date is there really a way to go about it that doesn't end badly? Message during recruitment is plain creepy. Asking them out after they are hired is bad for obvious reasons like you being the superior and him/her having the impression that this is the real reason they've been hired. There was at least one story on HN that I remember when someone wasn't hired and soon after was asked for a date and it also ended badly, even if that person waited some time to be "safe" that still could be counted as stalking and using information summited during the interview for personal reasons is bad. But you can't even ask about their phone number anyway! It doesn't matter if your intentions are honest and you two could be a good couple if you met at different occasion. Once the recruitment process starts he/she is pretty much removed form your dating pool. Even if you ask nicely without any inappropriate signals - any move you make can be seen by him/her as you taking advantage of the situation. Even innocent question about phone number can have really scary implications from his/her point of view. Sure it can end in nice date or maybe an awkward silence and you explaining yourself and apologizing or it can give them a true nightmare... Are you going to risk it?
- jusssi 9y ago
  > in general situation when during recruitment precess you meet someone you would like to date is there really a way to go about it that doesn't end badly? (a) No, not one where you have any control whether it goes bad or not (b) Your day job is not a dating service (c) If you can't figure out a and b on your own, you're not mature enough for a position of power
  - FeatureRush 9y ago
    Was it not clear that this is what I was saying? That asking out that would be OK in other situations is not OK in the context of job interview?
    - jusssi 9y ago
      I feel you said (a), and (b) and (c) were my additions. If you implied them and I missed it, then please consider my comment as TLDR-as-a-Service =)
      - FeatureRush 9y ago
        Sorry, on it's own the sentence you cited can be read both ways and I was afraid you stopped reading there. My bad.
    - emcarey 9y ago
      HE WAS MARRIED
- CPLX 9y ago
  This isn't actually that complicated. There are seven billion people in the world, you choose one of the ones that you aren't professionally compromised with to date. Period. Life is full of situations where you have to choose between two competing positive values. It's part of being an adult.
  - FeatureRush 9y ago
    Yes, you are right about there being a choice. This is the core of the problem here. Many I feel look at it and wonder why pass a good opportunity to meet someone, we could both have a chance at something great (unending source of unwanted advances)... The advice about not trying it in professional settings is seen as taking away their freedom to date people, as being rejected without even ability to ask and by it being fundamentally unjust. What they fail to consider is how it look from the other side and how the very same innocent question from their point of view can be seen as some sort of "deal" and part of nightmarish recruitment process.
  - oliv__ 9y ago
    Oh give me a break. You are so uptight.
chrischen 9y ago
Someone else here mentioned that Bill Gates met Melinda (his wife) while she was working at Microsoft. Wouldn't this mean their relationship shouldn't have happened/is wrong?
- NDT 9y ago
  There are many public figures who have met, dated, and married their colleagues. One that comes to mind is Jimmy Kimmel and his wife (head writer for his show). I think as long as it doesn't affect hiring/promoting/professional decisions it's a different situation. This is also assuming, of course, that there is no form of harassment going on.
  - muninn_ 9y ago
    Well it definitely has an affect, the only difference is everybody is either ok with it or indifferent to it. If all of a sudden Jimmy's wife starts being an asshole and gets fired then what? You don't think it would be handled differently if the head writer wasn't his wife? Just like this Facebook message thing. If she had been receptive to it, everybody is cool. But since she wasn't all of a sudden we've got the pitchforks out. I'm not saying it isn't wrong per se, but it's a far cry from some sort of clear-cut breech of ethics when whether it's ok or not depends on somebody's reception to it, and we sit here and happily condone marriages in the workplace and pretend they don't have an effect.
    - NDT 9y ago
      I mean there's also a couple other things that differentiates McClure's situation. He's also married. He seems to have accelerated the harassment immediately. Obviously I don't know the details, but it doesn't seem like he was just asking her out on a date. And if he did then clearly she wasn't receptive and he should have stopped. I think it's pretty easy to see that there's a clear violation on McClure's side.
      - muninn_ 9y ago
        Sure I don't disagree. At the same time, I can see (and I'm sure it's happened) that if he had sent just one message, and had not been married, we may see a similar reaction. My larger point isn't that he didn't do anything wrong, but that these situations are common, we usually only hear about it when something bad happens, and the line between what is acceptable or not is highly variable.

FeatureRush 9y ago

> If he wanted a relationship, there are infinitely better and more appropriate ways to go about it, especially if he thought she might actually be interested. McClure aside, in general situation when during recruitment precess you meet someone you would like to date is there really a way to go about it that doesn't end badly? Message during recruitment is plain creepy. Asking them out after they are hired is bad for obvious reasons like you being the superior and him/her having the impression that this is the real reason they've been hired. There was at least one story on HN that I remember when someone wasn't hired and soon after was asked for a date and it also ended badly, even if that person waited some time to be "safe" that still could be counted as stalking and using information summited during the interview for personal reasons is bad. But you can't even ask about their phone number anyway! It doesn't matter if your intentions are honest and you two could be a good couple if you met at different occasion. Once the recruitment process starts he/she is pretty much removed form your dating pool. Even if you ask nicely without any inappropriate signals - any move you make can be seen by him/her as you taking advantage of the situation. Even innocent question about phone number can have really scary implications from his/her point of view. Sure it can end in nice date or maybe an awkward silence and you explaining yourself and apologizing or it can give them a true nightmare... Are you going to risk it?

jusssi 9y ago
> in general situation when during recruitment precess you meet someone you would like to date is there really a way to go about it that doesn't end badly? (a) No, not one where you have any control whether it goes bad or not (b) Your day job is not a dating service (c) If you can't figure out a and b on your own, you're not mature enough for a position of power
- FeatureRush 9y ago
  Was it not clear that this is what I was saying? That asking out that would be OK in other situations is not OK in the context of job interview?
  - jusssi 9y ago
    I feel you said (a), and (b) and (c) were my additions. If you implied them and I missed it, then please consider my comment as TLDR-as-a-Service =)
    - FeatureRush 9y ago
      Sorry, on it's own the sentence you cited can be read both ways and I was afraid you stopped reading there. My bad.
  - emcarey 9y ago
    HE WAS MARRIED
CPLX 9y ago
This isn't actually that complicated. There are seven billion people in the world, you choose one of the ones that you aren't professionally compromised with to date. Period. Life is full of situations where you have to choose between two competing positive values. It's part of being an adult.
- FeatureRush 9y ago
  Yes, you are right about there being a choice. This is the core of the problem here. Many I feel look at it and wonder why pass a good opportunity to meet someone, we could both have a chance at something great (unending source of unwanted advances)... The advice about not trying it in professional settings is seen as taking away their freedom to date people, as being rejected without even ability to ask and by it being fundamentally unjust. What they fail to consider is how it look from the other side and how the very same innocent question from their point of view can be seen as some sort of "deal" and part of nightmarish recruitment process.
- oliv__ 9y ago
  Oh give me a break. You are so uptight.

chrischen 9y ago

Someone else here mentioned that Bill Gates met Melinda (his wife) while she was working at Microsoft. Wouldn't this mean their relationship shouldn't have happened/is wrong?

NDT 9y ago
There are many public figures who have met, dated, and married their colleagues. One that comes to mind is Jimmy Kimmel and his wife (head writer for his show). I think as long as it doesn't affect hiring/promoting/professional decisions it's a different situation. This is also assuming, of course, that there is no form of harassment going on.
- muninn_ 9y ago
  Well it definitely has an affect, the only difference is everybody is either ok with it or indifferent to it. If all of a sudden Jimmy's wife starts being an asshole and gets fired then what? You don't think it would be handled differently if the head writer wasn't his wife? Just like this Facebook message thing. If she had been receptive to it, everybody is cool. But since she wasn't all of a sudden we've got the pitchforks out. I'm not saying it isn't wrong per se, but it's a far cry from some sort of clear-cut breech of ethics when whether it's ok or not depends on somebody's reception to it, and we sit here and happily condone marriages in the workplace and pretend they don't have an effect.
  - NDT 9y ago
    I mean there's also a couple other things that differentiates McClure's situation. He's also married. He seems to have accelerated the harassment immediately. Obviously I don't know the details, but it doesn't seem like he was just asking her out on a date. And if he did then clearly she wasn't receptive and he should have stopped. I think it's pretty easy to see that there's a clear violation on McClure's side.
    - muninn_ 9y ago
      Sure I don't disagree. At the same time, I can see (and I'm sure it's happened) that if he had sent just one message, and had not been married, we may see a similar reaction. My larger point isn't that he didn't do anything wrong, but that these situations are common, we usually only hear about it when something bad happens, and the line between what is acceptable or not is highly variable.