4 ms·

God if you think NA is a good successful program, I've got a bridge to sell you. I was a junkie for six years. Abstinence only doesn't work (where that's define

by girvo 9y ago

God if you think NA is a good successful program, I've got a bridge to sell you. I was a junkie for six years. Abstinence only doesn't work (where that's defined as working for a sizeable percentage of people who go through it). ORT does, and the facts and numbers back this up. Anecdotally, Suboxone saved my life. And I've got a number of dead friends to prove it (some of which had gone through NA multiple times, and two had the damnable Vivitrol injections). So I'm a bit biased here, but I find your comment quite naive, albeit typical for those who have an opinion on this life without having had much interaction with it, much less lived it.

CodeWriter23 9y ago
I won't dismiss your testimonial of your experience with DRT. But it is not the universal truth. I would ask, are you on long term therapy presently? Or was it a short term assist through withdrawal? We've got plenty of studies showing how a few Oxy sends every day people to the streets looking for heroin. The studies haven't caught up for Subs yet. I know I'm projecting, but I'm pretty sure when the studies come, they will tell the same story. Why am I so confident in that? This story has repeated itself since Heroin was introduced as DRT for Morphine addiction. Then Methadone for Heroin. It's a vicious cycle across generations of the cure is worse than the problem.
- girvo 9y ago
  Suboxone has been around for decades. You are definitely projecting, and you do understand that buprenorphine is not a regular opiate, right? Partial agonist and also an antagonist. I was on it for 4 years, as I had a 2 gram a day heroin habit for six years prior. Please be careful making assumptions about things you do not understand.
  - CodeWriter23 9y ago
    The truth is, opiate receptors are a lot more binary in reality than this analog "theory" proffered by the purveyors of opioids. As with either substance, controlling the dosage obviously changes the level of effect on the recipient. In the U.K. they treated heroin addiction very similarly, with heroin. They'd give you enough to prevent withdrawal but not so much that you'd get high. PS working the 12 Steps would likely help you with that self-righteous condescension issue that has survived your chemical addiction.
undersuit 9y ago
Success is relative. The recovery programs that have sprung up from the ideals of Alcoholic Anonymous are not perfect, but the US Government has done very little to actually support those with substance issues. Quantitatively AA and NA are far more successful than all the money we throw at drug enforcement, and our drug enforcement policies actually harm the programs and the users, i.e. mandatory AA attendance in response to alcohol related offences and the danger to an NA individual's recovery when they do fall off the wagon and are picked up by law enforcement. I've seen the local success rate for AA, and I imagine that the NA programs are worse, but they are better than the alternatives we, the United States, present them.

by girvo 9y ago

CodeWriter23 9y ago

I won't dismiss your testimonial of your experience with DRT. But it is not the universal truth. I would ask, are you on long term therapy presently? Or was it a short term assist through withdrawal? We've got plenty of studies showing how a few Oxy sends every day people to the streets looking for heroin. The studies haven't caught up for Subs yet. I know I'm projecting, but I'm pretty sure when the studies come, they will tell the same story. Why am I so confident in that? This story has repeated itself since Heroin was introduced as DRT for Morphine addiction. Then Methadone for Heroin. It's a vicious cycle across generations of the cure is worse than the problem.

girvo 9y ago
Suboxone has been around for decades. You are definitely projecting, and you do understand that buprenorphine is not a regular opiate, right? Partial agonist and also an antagonist. I was on it for 4 years, as I had a 2 gram a day heroin habit for six years prior. Please be careful making assumptions about things you do not understand.
- CodeWriter23 9y ago
  The truth is, opiate receptors are a lot more binary in reality than this analog "theory" proffered by the purveyors of opioids. As with either substance, controlling the dosage obviously changes the level of effect on the recipient. In the U.K. they treated heroin addiction very similarly, with heroin. They'd give you enough to prevent withdrawal but not so much that you'd get high. PS working the 12 Steps would likely help you with that self-righteous condescension issue that has survived your chemical addiction.

undersuit 9y ago

Success is relative. The recovery programs that have sprung up from the ideals of Alcoholic Anonymous are not perfect, but the US Government has done very little to actually support those with substance issues. Quantitatively AA and NA are far more successful than all the money we throw at drug enforcement, and our drug enforcement policies actually harm the programs and the users, i.e. mandatory AA attendance in response to alcohol related offences and the danger to an NA individual's recovery when they do fall off the wagon and are picked up by law enforcement. I've seen the local success rate for AA, and I imagine that the NA programs are worse, but they are better than the alternatives we, the United States, present them.