4 ms·

I think building a policy based on the possible existence of a vanishingly small group of bad actors is a great way to make excuses for avoiding solving real pr

I think building a policy based on the possible existence of a vanishingly small group of bad actors is a great way to make excuses for avoiding solving real problems...

xor1 9y ago
https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/prevalence/borderline-personality-disorder.shtml https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/prevalence/border... I don't consider 1.6% among the general population to be "vanishingly small". That's easily approaching and I think even exceeding 1/100 when you factor for women only, since the majority of BPD diagnoses are for women. This isn't really insignificant when you think about how many people you will run into during a typical career. This also doesn't account for the large number of people who remain undiagnosed despite exhibiting significant traits. One of the primary traits of any personality disorder is the belief that there's nothing actually wrong with the symptoms and convincing oneself that they're beneficial. Getting treatment would mean admitting that there's something wrong with you and working towards fixing those issues. People with personality disorders prefer to change their environments to accommodate them instead of vice versa. It only takes one of them to do devastating damage to a person, or even an entire company if the right person is targeted. I also have nothing but my own anecdotal experiences for this, but I really think something about tech attracts people with traits associated with personality disorders at a higher rate than what's exhibited in the general population.
- fasquoika 9y ago
  Why do you seem to be under the impression that BPD is a good proxy for whether someone will make false accusations of sexual harassment?
  - xor1 9y ago
    I don't understand your question. What do you mean by proxy? Are you asking if I think that someone with BPD is more likely to make false accusations of sexual harassment than someone without it (or any of the other Cluster B disorders)?
  - qb45 9y ago
    Parent claims personal experience. I'm not saying that it's right to lump people together like that and BPDs in particular don't take well talking shit about them. However, some people with mental issues in some situations really pull off lies and deception which blow most people's minds. I've been in situations where people in charge wouldn't believe some things happening right under their nose because those things were simply too bold and, well, insane. And because people are easily manipulated into forming good opinions about others and apparently don't like learning they have been wrong.
    - xor1 9y ago
      >I've been in situations where people in charge wouldn't believe some things happening right under their nose because those things were simply too bold and, well, insane. This is exactly it. People also mistake vulnerability for honesty, which is something that borderlines are experts at taking advantage of.
- acdha 9y ago
  You're conflating two different things: if 1.6% of the population has BPD that still doesn't tell you that 100% of them are untreated and spending their time and credibility making false accusations, or that those wouldn't fall apart fairly quickly. That might happen on TV but most real people with mental illnesses spend time trying to minimize their impact on others, not act like the bad guy in a police procedural.
  - xor1 9y ago
    How much do you know about BPD? 100% may not be untreated, but the majority of them are. Here's a source that says people with BPD drop out of treatment 70% of the time: http://www.apa.org/monitor/mar04/treatment.aspx http://www.apa.org/monitor/mar04/treatment.aspx I don't know if sources for what % of people who self-identify/self-diagnosis as borderline never seek any sort of professional diagnosis or treatment exist. Given the nature of the condition and my own personal experiences, I think it is significant. >spending their time and credibility making false accusations, or that those wouldn't fall apart fairly quickly The most important thing to understand about borderlines is that their behavior can be irrational and even self/mutually-destructive. You are trying to analyze this hypothetical situation from a logical point of view, and that is a mistake. >most real people with mental illnesses spend time trying to minimize their impact on others That is definitely not how people with BPD operate. They're often described as "emotional vampires" for a reason. They feed off drama and conflict. They maximize their impact on other people. Please feel free to ask me for any additional sources to back up my points, or for anything else about BPD that you might be interested in, and I will happily find them for you. I think it is EXTREMELY important to discuss BPD and spread awareness of it. BPDs harm legitimate accusers and the falsely accused alike with their behavior. It's in everyone's best interest (including the borderlines themselves) to get as many borderlines into treatment as possible, and to keep them in it. In my opinion, they're one of the most significant roadblocks standing against actually achieving true gender-based equality, because men who get burned by a borderline are usually unable to find an explanation for what just happened to them nor any sort of support system because no one else really knows what is going on either. It can be really difficult to accept that BPD is even a real thing if you haven't personally experienced a relationship (romantic, professional, or platonic) with someone who has it. Hell, even after living through it, it's hard to accept.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

I think building a policy based on the possible existence of a vanishingly small group of bad actors is a great way to make excuses for avoiding solving real problems...

xor1 9y ago

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/prevalence/borderline-personality-disorder.shtml https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/prevalence/border... I don't consider 1.6% among the general population to be "vanishingly small". That's easily approaching and I think even exceeding 1/100 when you factor for women only, since the majority of BPD diagnoses are for women. This isn't really insignificant when you think about how many people you will run into during a typical career. This also doesn't account for the large number of people who remain undiagnosed despite exhibiting significant traits. One of the primary traits of any personality disorder is the belief that there's nothing actually wrong with the symptoms and convincing oneself that they're beneficial. Getting treatment would mean admitting that there's something wrong with you and working towards fixing those issues. People with personality disorders prefer to change their environments to accommodate them instead of vice versa. It only takes one of them to do devastating damage to a person, or even an entire company if the right person is targeted. I also have nothing but my own anecdotal experiences for this, but I really think something about tech attracts people with traits associated with personality disorders at a higher rate than what's exhibited in the general population.

fasquoika 9y ago
Why do you seem to be under the impression that BPD is a good proxy for whether someone will make false accusations of sexual harassment?
- xor1 9y ago
  I don't understand your question. What do you mean by proxy? Are you asking if I think that someone with BPD is more likely to make false accusations of sexual harassment than someone without it (or any of the other Cluster B disorders)?
- qb45 9y ago
  Parent claims personal experience. I'm not saying that it's right to lump people together like that and BPDs in particular don't take well talking shit about them. However, some people with mental issues in some situations really pull off lies and deception which blow most people's minds. I've been in situations where people in charge wouldn't believe some things happening right under their nose because those things were simply too bold and, well, insane. And because people are easily manipulated into forming good opinions about others and apparently don't like learning they have been wrong.
  - xor1 9y ago
    >I've been in situations where people in charge wouldn't believe some things happening right under their nose because those things were simply too bold and, well, insane. This is exactly it. People also mistake vulnerability for honesty, which is something that borderlines are experts at taking advantage of.
acdha 9y ago
You're conflating two different things: if 1.6% of the population has BPD that still doesn't tell you that 100% of them are untreated and spending their time and credibility making false accusations, or that those wouldn't fall apart fairly quickly. That might happen on TV but most real people with mental illnesses spend time trying to minimize their impact on others, not act like the bad guy in a police procedural.
- xor1 9y ago
  How much do you know about BPD? 100% may not be untreated, but the majority of them are. Here's a source that says people with BPD drop out of treatment 70% of the time: http://www.apa.org/monitor/mar04/treatment.aspx http://www.apa.org/monitor/mar04/treatment.aspx I don't know if sources for what % of people who self-identify/self-diagnosis as borderline never seek any sort of professional diagnosis or treatment exist. Given the nature of the condition and my own personal experiences, I think it is significant. >spending their time and credibility making false accusations, or that those wouldn't fall apart fairly quickly The most important thing to understand about borderlines is that their behavior can be irrational and even self/mutually-destructive. You are trying to analyze this hypothetical situation from a logical point of view, and that is a mistake. >most real people with mental illnesses spend time trying to minimize their impact on others That is definitely not how people with BPD operate. They're often described as "emotional vampires" for a reason. They feed off drama and conflict. They maximize their impact on other people. Please feel free to ask me for any additional sources to back up my points, or for anything else about BPD that you might be interested in, and I will happily find them for you. I think it is EXTREMELY important to discuss BPD and spread awareness of it. BPDs harm legitimate accusers and the falsely accused alike with their behavior. It's in everyone's best interest (including the borderlines themselves) to get as many borderlines into treatment as possible, and to keep them in it. In my opinion, they're one of the most significant roadblocks standing against actually achieving true gender-based equality, because men who get burned by a borderline are usually unable to find an explanation for what just happened to them nor any sort of support system because no one else really knows what is going on either. It can be really difficult to accept that BPD is even a real thing if you haven't personally experienced a relationship (romantic, professional, or platonic) with someone who has it. Hell, even after living through it, it's hard to accept.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]