5 ms·

Have worked on Wall Street. It's not worse.

by vostok 9y ago

nostrademons 9y ago
I'd question that. My wife is a former bond trader. At one point, the guys on her trading desk took her out to drinks, and one asked her, "So, are you still a virgin?" She was about 25 at the time.
- morgante 9y ago
  Why is her age relevant? It's not an appropriate question for a colleague anyway, but I'm curious why that would make it worse.
  - onion2k 9y ago
    Why is her age relevant? Asking a woman who's 25 if she's still a virgin is a clearly loaded question - if she says yes then she's admitting to be inexperienced and should sleep with the the 'man' asking in order to learn the ways of the world, and if she says no then she's admitting that she's sexually active and therefore willing to sleep with a 'man' like the one asking the question. Creepy assholes use this sort of tactic because they get off on making someone else feel bad. If you see it you really should call them out.
    - morgante 9y ago
      Oh, I agree it's super creepy and would call out any colleague who I saw doing it. I just think it's creepy regardless of her age.
  - nostrademons 9y ago
    It's context. The scenario plays out differently in most peoples' heads if said to a 40-year old veteran of the industry vs. a 25-year-old new hire vs. a 19-year-old intern. I'd agree that it's inappropriate for all of them, but it's inappropriate in different ways.
- vostok 9y ago
  Do you think tech doesn't have these problems? I suspect you're going to say that you've never personally seen it, but culture can vary a lot from desk to desk in finance. Stereotypically, you have cash equities at one extreme and exotic derivatives at the other. Outside of banks, the culture at an HFT firm or quant hedge fund will be completely different from the culture on a "bro-y" bank desk.
  - nostrademons 9y ago
    It's true I would never personally have seen it in tech, but I'll say that my wife has recounted this story to a number of my female friends with 10+ years of experience in tech, and their response is "Seriously? Wow."
  - FT_intern 9y ago
    Yes because tech is much more culturally diverse, with large amounts of immigrants and second generation children of immigrants. If you've ever worked at a large tech company, you would know that the average team is very quiet because of the cultural barriers. The few Americans on the team are very introverted and again have a slight cultural barrier even with each other because many of them are the children of immigrants. The frat % is undoubtedly much lower in tech (if it's even represented at all) compared to banking.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  I suppose there's more to this story than you're telling, because on the face of it - all I can say is people ask other people such questions over drinks, regardless of gender.
- Pxtl 9y ago
  While that's obviously not okay, I'd be hard pressed to come up with predominantly-male industry where that wouldn't happen once in a while. Over drinks with inhibitions lowered? Creeper's gonna creep.
nailer 9y ago
Finance in London basically funds the entire sex industry.
- vostok 9y ago
  Paying someone for sex is not the same as harassing your coworkers. You're also extremely naive if you think this doesn't happen in every other sales heavy industry. London just happens to have a large financial sector. I can assure you that the same thing happens in the oil, tech, and real estate industries for example. If we're taking about anecdotes, I had a friend in college who was a sex worker and most of her customers were in tech.
  - nailer 9y ago
    Sure but the entire team meeting at a strip joint after an official corporate event is harassment.
  - taway_1212 9y ago
    > sex worker What's wrong with a word 'prostitute'?
    - vostok 9y ago
      Do you think all sex workers are prostitutes?
    - bogomipz 9y ago
      "Sex worker" denotes consensual sex work, while "prostitution" includes human trafficking. Also sex workers includes dancers in strip clubs, phone sex operators and adult magazine models none of which engage in the physical act of sex with others as part of their job: https://rewire.news/article/2008/05/06/sex-work-trafficking-understanding-difference/ https://rewire.news/article/2008/05/06/sex-work-trafficking-...
      - qb45 9y ago
        Agree about strippers etc, but to me "sex worker" sounds like something that could equally well be voluntary or coerced, just like any other worker. Wikipedia article on gulags refers to prisoners as "workers" several times.

Have worked on Wall Street. It's not worse.

by vostok 9y ago

Have worked on Wall Street. It's not worse.

I'd question that. My wife is a former bond trader. At one point, the guys on her trading desk took her out to drinks, and one asked her, "So, are you still a virgin?" She was about 25 at the time.

morgante 9y ago
Why is her age relevant? It's not an appropriate question for a colleague anyway, but I'm curious why that would make it worse.
- onion2k 9y ago
  Why is her age relevant? Asking a woman who's 25 if she's still a virgin is a clearly loaded question - if she says yes then she's admitting to be inexperienced and should sleep with the the 'man' asking in order to learn the ways of the world, and if she says no then she's admitting that she's sexually active and therefore willing to sleep with a 'man' like the one asking the question. Creepy assholes use this sort of tactic because they get off on making someone else feel bad. If you see it you really should call them out.
  - morgante 9y ago
    Oh, I agree it's super creepy and would call out any colleague who I saw doing it. I just think it's creepy regardless of her age.
- nostrademons 9y ago
  It's context. The scenario plays out differently in most peoples' heads if said to a 40-year old veteran of the industry vs. a 25-year-old new hire vs. a 19-year-old intern. I'd agree that it's inappropriate for all of them, but it's inappropriate in different ways.
vostok 9y ago
Do you think tech doesn't have these problems? I suspect you're going to say that you've never personally seen it, but culture can vary a lot from desk to desk in finance. Stereotypically, you have cash equities at one extreme and exotic derivatives at the other. Outside of banks, the culture at an HFT firm or quant hedge fund will be completely different from the culture on a "bro-y" bank desk.
- nostrademons 9y ago
  It's true I would never personally have seen it in tech, but I'll say that my wife has recounted this story to a number of my female friends with 10+ years of experience in tech, and their response is "Seriously? Wow."
- FT_intern 9y ago
  Yes because tech is much more culturally diverse, with large amounts of immigrants and second generation children of immigrants. If you've ever worked at a large tech company, you would know that the average team is very quiet because of the cultural barriers. The few Americans on the team are very introverted and again have a slight cultural barrier even with each other because many of them are the children of immigrants. The frat % is undoubtedly much lower in tech (if it's even represented at all) compared to banking.
TeMPOraL 9y ago
I suppose there's more to this story than you're telling, because on the face of it - all I can say is people ask other people such questions over drinks, regardless of gender.
Pxtl 9y ago
While that's obviously not okay, I'd be hard pressed to come up with predominantly-male industry where that wouldn't happen once in a while. Over drinks with inhibitions lowered? Creeper's gonna creep.

nailer 9y ago

Finance in London basically funds the entire sex industry.

vostok 9y ago
Paying someone for sex is not the same as harassing your coworkers. You're also extremely naive if you think this doesn't happen in every other sales heavy industry. London just happens to have a large financial sector. I can assure you that the same thing happens in the oil, tech, and real estate industries for example. If we're taking about anecdotes, I had a friend in college who was a sex worker and most of her customers were in tech.
- nailer 9y ago
  Sure but the entire team meeting at a strip joint after an official corporate event is harassment.
- taway_1212 9y ago
  > sex worker What's wrong with a word 'prostitute'?
  - vostok 9y ago
    Do you think all sex workers are prostitutes?
  - bogomipz 9y ago
    "Sex worker" denotes consensual sex work, while "prostitution" includes human trafficking. Also sex workers includes dancers in strip clubs, phone sex operators and adult magazine models none of which engage in the physical act of sex with others as part of their job: https://rewire.news/article/2008/05/06/sex-work-trafficking-understanding-difference/ https://rewire.news/article/2008/05/06/sex-work-trafficking-...
    - qb45 9y ago
      Agree about strippers etc, but to me "sex worker" sounds like something that could equally well be voluntary or coerced, just like any other worker. Wikipedia article on gulags refers to prisoners as "workers" several times.