4 ms·

What would be enough to you?

geofft 9y ago
It would be a good start if he came to this realization on his own, instead of right after being contacted by the New York Times going "Hey, we're going to publish a story about your sexual harassment, do you want to dispute this account".
- sillysaurus3 9y ago
  People make mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes go back years, and sometimes a sudden traumatic event can snap someone out of the patterns of behavior they fell into. The point is that it's probably a mistake to treat him the same way you'd treat certain kinds of felons. Part of that is to give him an opportunity to contribute in a positive way to the world, like everyone else. If he's genuine, then isn't there some way to do that?
  - obstinate 9y ago
    Normally people have to do some penance before forgiveness, especially as the crimes grow more heinous. Continuing to live the rich and privileged life you were leading before, more or less untouched by the hand of justice, does not count for much in this dimension.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - sillysaurus3 9y ago
      Certainly. But what does justice look like here? If nobody knows or nobody's willing to venture a guess, then we should at least acknowledge that complete social ostracism is a massive penalty. Are you sure the punishment fits the crime? It seems more likely that there's a reasonable middle ground, but maybe someone has a persuasive argument to the contrary.
      - obstinate 9y ago
        - Reparations to all he harmed directly. - Further reparations to groups representing those similarly situated. - Meaningful engagement with mental health professionals to attempt to work on the source of the problem. - Less defensive, less self-promotional apologies. These four are the bare minimum. Until he has done each of these, he's receiving a failing grade from me.
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - geofft 9y ago
        I don't see any sign that "complete social ostracism" is the actual outcome here, or even a plausible outcome.
        sillysaurus3 9y ago
        His reputation is in ruins. It remains to be seen whether anybody will do business with him. Both of those combined equals social ostracism, so we should at least be sure it's warranted.
        geofft 9y ago
        This sounds remarkably like the sort of sky-is-falling rhetoric I heard on this website when Brendan Eich was pushed out of Mozilla. He's now the CEO of a of a two-year-old startup with $7M in funding. I'd love to have my reputation ruined in the way Brendan Eich's was! It is technically true that it remains to be seen whether anybody will do business with him, but I strongly suspect they will. For the purpose of accurately testing this hypothesis, note that he already retired from both Lowercase Capital and Shark Tank a couple months ago: https://lowercasecapital.com/2017/04/26/hanging-up-my-spurs/ https://lowercasecapital.com/2017/04/26/hanging-up-my-spurs/ There are a couple of projects listed there (Zach Braff's new ABC show, his new podcast, some different form of investing): we can see if those come to fruition.
  - geofft 9y ago
    I'd be a lot more inclined to believe that if the blog post weren't a bunch of "I am sorry for unwittingly participating in reinforcing systems of oppression" / "I am sorry for not calling out colleagues" / etc. He knew exactly what the NYT article was going to say: they contacted him to see if he wanted to dispute it. If he were being genuine, he could have said "I did this thing, I apologize to the specific person I hurt". I'm absolutely giving him room to be genuine, he's just staying well out of that room. ... and, apparently, he's now updated the blog post disputing the NYT's account: https://medium.com/@sacca/i-have-more-work-to-do-c775c5d56ca1 https://medium.com/@sacca/i-have-more-work-to-do-c775c5d56ca... This is so bizarre.
  - s73ver 9y ago
    THIS IS NOT A MISTAKE! He didn’t spill milk. He didn’t pick the wrong wine for dinner. He knew exactly what he was doing. He knew it was wrong. He did it anyway. I’m sorry, but I just cannot stand so many people having this “boys will be boys” attitude toward this.
    - geofft 9y ago
      Also, like, I thought Silicon Valley was a meritocracy. And venture capital is literally a job where your social skills and business acumen, not your ability to write high-performance C or whatever, is the entirety of the job. Isn't someone who is too stupid to realize they're harassing their business partners unqualified for the job?
  - tripzilch 9y ago
    > The point is that it's probably a mistake to treat him the same way you'd treat certain kinds of felons. Part of that is to give him an opportunity to contribute in a positive way to the world, like everyone else. If he's genuine, then isn't there some way to do that? You could really make the same point for most felons, if you got to know them. Crazy thing is, because I don't believe in punishment but prefer rehabilitation, I actually think that most felons deserve it more. Remember that the USA is the land of the 98% free.
floodyberry- 9y ago
"The billionaire who exploited his wealth and position to engage in and perpetuate consequences free garbage bro culture said sorry like 5 times, what more do you people want?"
auganov 9y ago
Just deleting most paragraphs would already make a big improvement.
yawaramin 9y ago
It would be great if him and his ilk would stop sexually harassing women.

It would be a good start if he came to this realization on his own, instead of right after being contacted by the New York Times going "Hey, we're going to publish a story about your sexual harassment, do you want to dispute this account".

sillysaurus3 9y ago
People make mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes go back years, and sometimes a sudden traumatic event can snap someone out of the patterns of behavior they fell into. The point is that it's probably a mistake to treat him the same way you'd treat certain kinds of felons. Part of that is to give him an opportunity to contribute in a positive way to the world, like everyone else. If he's genuine, then isn't there some way to do that?
- obstinate 9y ago
  Normally people have to do some penance before forgiveness, especially as the crimes grow more heinous. Continuing to live the rich and privileged life you were leading before, more or less untouched by the hand of justice, does not count for much in this dimension.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - sillysaurus3 9y ago
    Certainly. But what does justice look like here? If nobody knows or nobody's willing to venture a guess, then we should at least acknowledge that complete social ostracism is a massive penalty. Are you sure the punishment fits the crime? It seems more likely that there's a reasonable middle ground, but maybe someone has a persuasive argument to the contrary.
    - obstinate 9y ago
      - Reparations to all he harmed directly. - Further reparations to groups representing those similarly situated. - Meaningful engagement with mental health professionals to attempt to work on the source of the problem. - Less defensive, less self-promotional apologies. These four are the bare minimum. Until he has done each of these, he's receiving a failing grade from me.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
    - geofft 9y ago
      I don't see any sign that "complete social ostracism" is the actual outcome here, or even a plausible outcome.
      - sillysaurus3 9y ago
        His reputation is in ruins. It remains to be seen whether anybody will do business with him. Both of those combined equals social ostracism, so we should at least be sure it's warranted.
        geofft 9y ago
        This sounds remarkably like the sort of sky-is-falling rhetoric I heard on this website when Brendan Eich was pushed out of Mozilla. He's now the CEO of a of a two-year-old startup with $7M in funding. I'd love to have my reputation ruined in the way Brendan Eich's was! It is technically true that it remains to be seen whether anybody will do business with him, but I strongly suspect they will. For the purpose of accurately testing this hypothesis, note that he already retired from both Lowercase Capital and Shark Tank a couple months ago: https://lowercasecapital.com/2017/04/26/hanging-up-my-spurs/ https://lowercasecapital.com/2017/04/26/hanging-up-my-spurs/ There are a couple of projects listed there (Zach Braff's new ABC show, his new podcast, some different form of investing): we can see if those come to fruition.
- geofft 9y ago
  I'd be a lot more inclined to believe that if the blog post weren't a bunch of "I am sorry for unwittingly participating in reinforcing systems of oppression" / "I am sorry for not calling out colleagues" / etc. He knew exactly what the NYT article was going to say: they contacted him to see if he wanted to dispute it. If he were being genuine, he could have said "I did this thing, I apologize to the specific person I hurt". I'm absolutely giving him room to be genuine, he's just staying well out of that room. ... and, apparently, he's now updated the blog post disputing the NYT's account: https://medium.com/@sacca/i-have-more-work-to-do-c775c5d56ca1 https://medium.com/@sacca/i-have-more-work-to-do-c775c5d56ca... This is so bizarre.
- s73ver 9y ago
  THIS IS NOT A MISTAKE! He didn’t spill milk. He didn’t pick the wrong wine for dinner. He knew exactly what he was doing. He knew it was wrong. He did it anyway. I’m sorry, but I just cannot stand so many people having this “boys will be boys” attitude toward this.
  - geofft 9y ago
    Also, like, I thought Silicon Valley was a meritocracy. And venture capital is literally a job where your social skills and business acumen, not your ability to write high-performance C or whatever, is the entirety of the job. Isn't someone who is too stupid to realize they're harassing their business partners unqualified for the job?
- tripzilch 9y ago
  > The point is that it's probably a mistake to treat him the same way you'd treat certain kinds of felons. Part of that is to give him an opportunity to contribute in a positive way to the world, like everyone else. If he's genuine, then isn't there some way to do that? You could really make the same point for most felons, if you got to know them. Crazy thing is, because I don't believe in punishment but prefer rehabilitation, I actually think that most felons deserve it more. Remember that the USA is the land of the 98% free.

floodyberry- 9y ago

"The billionaire who exploited his wealth and position to engage in and perpetuate consequences free garbage bro culture said sorry like 5 times, what more do you people want?"

auganov 9y ago

Just deleting most paragraphs would already make a big improvement.

yawaramin 9y ago

It would be great if him and his ilk would stop sexually harassing women.