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Wow. Is this satirical? This is disgusting - you are part and parcel of the rampant sexism the women in the article are speaking out against. > That she might

Wow. Is this satirical? This is disgusting - you are part and parcel of the rampant sexism the women in the article are speaking out against. > That she might use sex appeal to her advantage is believable since many hard-working artists do. Just use every natural or acquired gift you have. You're evaluating whether or not you think somebody's claim of harassment is true based on whether or not you think they are attractive. Does that mean that you would disregard allegations by somebody you found homely? We should assess claims of harassment based on the testimony provided not your personal assessment of somebody's attractiveness. > That said, I'd probably not do it as a venture capitalist helping her get funding just because of the liability. I might end up in a news article or something. The reason to avoid making women seeking funding feel uncomfortable is to avoid making women seeking funding feel uncomfortable. It's not so that you avoid bad PR. > If I did it, there'd be a brick wall between the two with me testing her interest up front. She can tell me what she's comfortable with taking me up on personal/professional interests anywhere from zero (dont work with me) to both. There should be zero personal or romantic engagement by the part of a VC with an entrepreneur where the first interaction is skewed by the power dynamic. A consensual and equal relationship is impossible when one party controls the financial and social prospects of the other. > Then, there seems to be an expectation that successful or professional men never show interest in any women who are skilled professionals or founders in favor of... lesser women in clubs, churches, or something? It's possible for men to interact with women in social contexts, not just in professional ones. > Telling me I must sacrifice all potential for a date or resulting relationship with such incredible women just because they're founders or something with nothing in return... while they can mostly do whatever they want... seems a bit arbitrary, unfair and lots of missed potential. Women do not exist in the world solely for you to date. Again, if there exists an asymmetrical power dynamic there is no possibility of a consensual equal relationship. If somebody asked you out while holding a gun to your head would you feel comfortable turning them down? You might protest at the metaphor, but being able to deny somebody resources they desperately need can be just as threatening. > Also, every one I've heard from reported witnessing a varying chunk of those women would hit on or flit with men they liked who were professionals doing their job. They said that was OK since they initiated. Are you sure that in every instance the women are expressing romantic interest? Or are they merely being friendly, and being misinterpreted. That is a trope that comes up often - men think they are being hit on but nothing of the sort is happening.

nickpsecurity 9y ago
"This is disgusting - you are part and parcel of the rampant sexism the women in the article are speaking out against." So, let's say there was a trial where someone complained about an advance. Then, that person said they were flirted with first. One is a woman. You have data on how the guy presents himself to other people to compare to the claims of the woman. You give the woman the win automatically without looking into how she presents herself to compare to the guys claims and assess her credibility? If accuser = female and target = male, then female-claims = true. I'm not like that. I've seen so many females do exactly what he said in businesses, including business owners, that I at least wanted to test it out of curiousity. As I said, though, there's no hard data supporting his claim where in this case he admitted what data she had was true. Open and shut just on evidence. "The reason to avoid making women seeking funding feel uncomfortable is to avoid making women seeking funding feel uncomfortable. It's not so that you avoid bad PR." No no no. It's best to always look at principles and pragmatics. There's a huge liability side to this as I illustrated here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14674307 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14674307 There's also what I'm putting in for what I'm getting. If I'm a VC, there's a clear chance to make more money getting more talent in. That's why I'd be especially hesitant at least thinking in self-interest to flirt with them and probably try to create a good environment for women. I've already done that professionally for years and year. We even recently outed a perv that was ass-smacking who had apparently done it for years. I will also look at the risk posed to my career by real and false claims of sexual harrassment, though, since the cost is staggeringly high. I always look at principles, pragmatic options, risk, and rewards in business. Some of these get under-reported in the liberal media despite a massive number of people (including women) in the U.S. having differing views. "There should be zero personal or romantic engagement by the part of a VC with an entrepreneur where the first interaction is skewed by the power dynamic. " "It's possible for men to interact with women in social contexts, not just in professional ones." Two, arbitrary rules designed to benefit one side. Usually at other side's expense but I consider it probably a gain in VC's for getting more female founders. I'm leaning in favor of it ideologically and default on it in business already since I've seen a lot of damage from going the other route. Then again, there's lots of men and women that like being able to make a yes-no proposal with some getting good results out of it. That's reality as opposed to hypothesis. Dissenting opionion exists. So, I bring it up to raise question to see what poeple say. "omen do not exist in the world solely for you to date." They exist to do whatever they want hopefully leading rich, happy lives. One thing many (most?) they like to do is date men. The time and place they'll meet plus window of opportunity might happen in a professional context with narrow possibilities. So, a cost-benefit analysis happens where one or the other might decide if it's worth the risk to approach the other. This is how you get couples or marriages that started with them working together. You're acting like this doesn't happen or never should happen. The amount of dissenting action... by women... means that's worth questioning or people discussing. "Are you sure that in every instance the women are expressing romantic interest?" These people are pretty good at recognizing flirting. Especially sexual humor, ignoring work tasks a bit to focus on learning more about the guy, and trying to go out with him. I anticipated that problem. Asked for details like that. Watched many, many women do that with me sometimes having to tell them to knock it off and get shit done. The guys, too, for sure. :)

nickpsecurity 9y ago

"This is disgusting - you are part and parcel of the rampant sexism the women in the article are speaking out against." So, let's say there was a trial where someone complained about an advance. Then, that person said they were flirted with first. One is a woman. You have data on how the guy presents himself to other people to compare to the claims of the woman. You give the woman the win automatically without looking into how she presents herself to compare to the guys claims and assess her credibility? If accuser = female and target = male, then female-claims = true. I'm not like that. I've seen so many females do exactly what he said in businesses, including business owners, that I at least wanted to test it out of curiousity. As I said, though, there's no hard data supporting his claim where in this case he admitted what data she had was true. Open and shut just on evidence. "The reason to avoid making women seeking funding feel uncomfortable is to avoid making women seeking funding feel uncomfortable. It's not so that you avoid bad PR." No no no. It's best to always look at principles and pragmatics. There's a huge liability side to this as I illustrated here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14674307 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14674307 There's also what I'm putting in for what I'm getting. If I'm a VC, there's a clear chance to make more money getting more talent in. That's why I'd be especially hesitant at least thinking in self-interest to flirt with them and probably try to create a good environment for women. I've already done that professionally for years and year. We even recently outed a perv that was ass-smacking who had apparently done it for years. I will also look at the risk posed to my career by real and false claims of sexual harrassment, though, since the cost is staggeringly high. I always look at principles, pragmatic options, risk, and rewards in business. Some of these get under-reported in the liberal media despite a massive number of people (including women) in the U.S. having differing views. "There should be zero personal or romantic engagement by the part of a VC with an entrepreneur where the first interaction is skewed by the power dynamic. " "It's possible for men to interact with women in social contexts, not just in professional ones." Two, arbitrary rules designed to benefit one side. Usually at other side's expense but I consider it probably a gain in VC's for getting more female founders. I'm leaning in favor of it ideologically and default on it in business already since I've seen a lot of damage from going the other route. Then again, there's lots of men and women that like being able to make a yes-no proposal with some getting good results out of it. That's reality as opposed to hypothesis. Dissenting opionion exists. So, I bring it up to raise question to see what poeple say. "omen do not exist in the world solely for you to date." They exist to do whatever they want hopefully leading rich, happy lives. One thing many (most?) they like to do is date men. The time and place they'll meet plus window of opportunity might happen in a professional context with narrow possibilities. So, a cost-benefit analysis happens where one or the other might decide if it's worth the risk to approach the other. This is how you get couples or marriages that started with them working together. You're acting like this doesn't happen or never should happen. The amount of dissenting action... by women... means that's worth questioning or people discussing. "Are you sure that in every instance the women are expressing romantic interest?" These people are pretty good at recognizing flirting. Especially sexual humor, ignoring work tasks a bit to focus on learning more about the guy, and trying to go out with him. I anticipated that problem. Asked for details like that. Watched many, many women do that with me sometimes having to tell them to knock it off and get shit done. The guys, too, for sure. :)