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McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation
- rmason 9y agoThe one person that I would have never suspected is Dave McClure. Here's a guy who didn't fit the investment world and he was smart and hustled his way in. He started 500 startups with a female co-founder and said he chose her because she was smarter. He saw an opening for himself and talked about playing Moneyball for venture capital. He spoke often in interviews about chasing investments among founders who didn't fit the profile but were eminently backable and that included women. He blogged publicly about his insecurities and campaigned for diversity. https://500hats.com/commitment-to-diversity-d8a4ac8b1c12 https://500hats.com/commitment-to-diversity-d8a4ac8b1c12 Guess it proves you can't really know a person through their writings and interviews. He was someone that I admired and I'm more than a little disappointed.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- horsecaptin 9y agoYes, after all these years of looking up to him, how quickly you turn your back. Does he not deserve the benefit of your doubt?
- mikek 9y agoDid you not read the article?
- gduncan12 9y agoI read the article. Really hard to figure out what he did or how bad it was. Did he cat call a woman who just wasn't interested, or did he lock a woman in an office and forcibly rape her? Article doesn't say one way or another.
- origami777 9y agoI agree with your sentiment (could've been worded better). Without clarification it seems like people are assuming the worst. Given Dave's reputation that doesn't seem fair. Hopefully the community will get some clarification so that those who work(ed) with Dave can make an informed judgement call for themselves about how to proceed with their relationship. Edit: added parenthesis to first sentence.
- TheCondor 9y agoWomen reported it, right? The Times article describes it. Women seeking jobs were propositioned and then denied jobs after rebuffing, sexist comments were made while they were fund raising and suggestive texts were sent. It doesn't seem like rape level stuff but it's still bad and unacceptable. It's never a good idea to approach someone romantically if there is some kind of superior/subordinate relationship. it just seems really messy with some sort of VC type relationship too, maybe almost a worst case scenarios.
- neom 9y agoWhy in gods name is RAPE the bar we hold ourselves to regarding how we treat others????? I'm actually sick to my stomach reading HN this evening.
- TheCondor 9y agoJust to be real clear, I don't think that's the bar. I think it's sick what happened. One of the parents was asking about the details and asked if it was rape or whatever and I tried to answer. I'm not in any way, shape, or form condoning or down playing what has happened here
- origami777 9y agoAh I didn't see that article. Only saw the techcrunch one.
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- horsecaptin 9y agoYes I did. Investigations within private companies aren't the most forensic of affaires. There is always more going on than the story.
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- rmason 9y agoWhat is particularly telling for me that instead of trying to explain himself he just ran away. Sometimes if you rally around someone reflexively you're empowering a predator. Justin Calbeck got at least two passes we know about previous to his current troubles. At my alma mater there's a doctor who had people covering for him for fifteen years until a brave woman accused him publicly of sexually assaulting her during an exam. At last count 125 women have come forward with a similar complaint against him. A few years back my attitude might have been different but you're shaped by your experiences.
- drunkenmonkey 9y agoOn the contra side of this is Trevor Fitzgibbon, who was accused of sexual assault, had the investigation dropped, and yet is nonetheless blackballed by the PR industry. Again, those whose minds are stuck on repeat -- whose own minds trap them into believing women over men -- are fools who should not be heeded. Like Nazis who sing hymns while Jews are marched to the gas chambers. The idiocy is real, and the effects on society are damning.
- kelnos 9y agoThat's a general problem with people's tendency to pass judgment on things where they have no first-hand experience. There are lots of people who have been accused of crimes, have later been exonerated, but in the process the court of public opinion has already crucified them. At that point it's too late: the public will never admit it was wrong. I'm not sure what we do about that. People who actually do bad things should be held accountable for them. Our "innocent until proven guilty" system is nice in theory, but the end result in the eyes of the public usually ends up being "guilty until proven innocent, but still guilty".
- mbesto 9y ago> hustled his way in. > hus·tler - an aggressively enterprising person; a go-getter. I think that tells it all right there. Is it not strange that the word hustle is used so pervasively in SV-tech communities?
- tosskey123 9y ago> Guess it proves you can't really know a person through their writings and interviews. You mean the blog posts and interviews in which he insulted people and used f-bombs every other word?
- prostoalex 9y agoThey were also among the first venture firms to run a syndicate focused on women founders https://500.co/500-women/ https://500.co/500-women/
- tosskey123 9y agoWas it called the Prey Fund?
- ithinkinstereo 9y agoThis is the "I can't be racist because my best friend is black" defense. It's hard for me to see where all the McClure defenders are coming from. Is it that hard to see his actions in this specific instance as being (wildly) inappropriate? This is basically textbook sexual harassment. Just distill it to the basic facts: 1) Job applicants comes to interview for a job 2) After the interview, McClure contacts her over FaceBook and not-so-subtly propositions her in relation to her goal of getting hired How is this at all defensible? EVEN if the job applicant was overtly flirty, how is messaging a job applicant over FACEBOOK and saying what McClure said at all appropriate? At the very least, McClure is, as he would say a "fucking" dumbass, at worst, a sexual harasser. I 100% bet he's done a lot worse and knowing other partners at 500 Startups, it frankly doesn't surprise me at the least.
- hn_throwaway_99 9y agoI interpreted the original comment and direct parent as not defending McClure, but being shocked and surprised that his private behavior was so contrary to his public persona.
- pcunite 9y agoThanks for the link. The way women are portrayed on that page is very objectifying. It seems to be saying, "your sexuality is the most important thing to us"
- dboreham 9y agoIf you were in the business of trawling for hot female founders, isn't this exactly the kind of thing you'd do?
- devinmontgomery 9y agoI think there are both 1) sleezeballs who intentionally take advantage of their position and 2) men who don't realized what they're doing and need to use better judgement. Without knowing details, there are at least indications in both McClure's and Sacca's pasts that they may (hopefully) be in the latter group. And hopefully this will help both groups get smaller.
- neom 9y agoUhmmm..... "In 2014, Sarah Kunst, 31, an entrepreneur, said she discussed a potential job at 500 Startups, a start-up incubator in San Francisco. During the recruiting process, Mr. McClure, a founder of 500 Startups and an investor, sent her a Facebook message that read in part, “I was getting confused figuring out whether to hire you or hit on you.”"
- devinmontgomery 9y agoThat message was absolutely inappropriate. Women should be able to raise money without being hit on by investors. My comment was in response to the idea that Dave was secretly different than his outward appearance. I don't know him, I don't know the situation. But I think otherwise good people can do things they should apologize for and stop.
- Hydraulix989 9y ago^ Classic Halo effect from psychology.
- devinmontgomery 9y agoA person who does this being "otherwise good" doesn't lessen the harm to women looking for jobs or investment. But it does go to the person's intent and overall desert of punishment.
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- faitswulff 9y agoI agree, but I think that even the most feminist men are raised and inculcated in a misogynist society. You likely do have a good idea of who McClure is. But it's a numbers game - given a position of power and a systemic gendered inequity, there are a lot more opportunities for a man to fuck up. That's why we, and I speak as a (cisgendered/heterosexual) man myself, have to be constantly vigilant about our actions and introspective about our thoughts and where they come from.
- drunkenmonkey 9y agoIt's entirely possible he is being set up. Anyone who doesn't see this angle is foolish, and honestly shouldn't say anything publicly about it due to their naïveté.
- downandout 9y agoI'm not sure what McClure actually did, but in the current hypersensitive, politically correct environment, simply asking a woman out that you happen to meet while both of you are involved with a startup seems to be considered "harassment" worthy of destroying careers and businesses. Some of the stories that have surfaced recently clearly step over the line, but many others are vague and lack any clear intent on the part of the accused to make the woman uncomfortable, let alone harass or assault them. Intent matters. Men who use positions of power to intimidate women into doing things they don't want to do should absolutely be punished. Men who happen to be attracted to women that they work with/around who decide to politely ask them out shouldn't be.
- devinmontgomery 9y agoIt's the position of power, regardless of intent, that's the problem. It's lonely to be the boss. Don't hit on women you meet in that capacity.
- downandout 9y agoMelinda Gates worked at Microsoft when she met Bill. Should he be publicly tarred and feathered like this? By your logic, he abused his authority and he should not have dated or married his wife because he held power over her - he could have immediately fired her if she had rejected his advances. So where do we draw the line, and why isn't Bill on the firing line in the same way these others are?
- kinkrtyavimoodh 9y agoWell, one simple heuristic is to wait for the party NOT in power to initiate the relationship. If this entrepreneur who got hit on had propositioned McClure instead, I don't think people would have minded that.
- kelnos 9y agoThat's still a questionable situation. If a subordinate asks out a superior, how does the superior know if they're actually interested, or are just hoping for preferential treatment? And even beyond that, peers of the subordinate, once they find out about the relationship (and of course, they will find out), may be uncomfortable with a peer of theirs having the ability -- whether real or perceived -- to bend the boss' ear to that degree.
- kordless 9y agoYou are making a statement of surprise that someone who "didn't fit the investment world", who was "smart" and a "hustler" would not make such a mistake while navigating the interface between his personal life and his business/career. I say "personal life" given these advances indicate an IMPROPER blurring of personal need, including a physical attraction response, which was then carried over into day-to-day business. It is this response that creates a double bind for the women who are involved in situation. Double binds are bad news, whether they are intentional, such as those used by Trump, or unintentional, such as those created by those who do not manage their personal lives well. Why is it that we EVER may assume, by someone's external behaviors including their writings, videos and interviews, that we may "know" an individual? Why would we ever assume a level of trust in how they conduct themselves in their personal lives by their outward actions? Why would we assume someone who did "fit" the investment world would be more likely to act in a similar improper manner? How is it that we actually fail to acknowledge that each of us has a line that, when it is crossed, we are capable of making horrible mistakes? Why is it that Western culture has formed a view of mistakes as something to be avoided at all cost, as opposed to an opportunity for great learning? I came out of my self-imposed exile here to post this because I think it's important to draw a line and indicate a social community such as HN (or Twitter) are woefully inadequate to deal with these types of issues in a meaningful way and to do so without a highly divisive conversation forming. (This is not to say the message should not be delivered strongly to anyone listening, however.) All that comes of these discussions is blame and division. Evidence of that is show here, now, in the polarized comments. The only people who can judge Dave honestly here now are the victims, his co-workers and himself. I do have empathy for those involved, but my emotional contributions here are pointless, given the scale and reach of this news.
- sillysaurus3 9y agoWhy'd you leave? Come back! HN needs more of you. You make an incredibly important point, and the fact that HN is resistant to it shows that most people are lucky enough not to have been betrayed by someone that everyone respects. I've had that experience, and it was shocking to realize that someone could be so different internally vs how everyone perceives them.
- anindha 9y agoI have seen questionable material come from him [1]: Examples: "Money Shot" with kitten spreadings its legs and "Great Products...Get you LAID". [1] https://www.slideshare.net/dmc500hats/how-to-pitch-a-vc-or-angel-13504703/ https://www.slideshare.net/dmc500hats/how-to-pitch-a-vc-or-a... edit: link directly to slides and deleted nested comment.
- gexla 9y agoLet's say we're talking about Chris Rock. There's a difference between him cracking jokes on a public stage and him directing these same sorts of jokes to a potential hire in a private conversation.
- cylinder 9y agoI don't really understand what you're trying to say.
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- mhluongo 9y agoDid he come up with "paid, laid, or made"? I've heard it from sales people and thought it predated McClure. The kitten and "money shot" is absolutely unnecessary, but I get the coarse language for "paid, made, laid"- the idea is that compelling products and services target base desires.
- anindha 9y agoI think the most compelling products deliver utility. Even if targeting base desires is your product design strategy doesn't mean it needs to be in a template for future founders to follow. Your argument is similar to the argument for having swimsuit models in tabloid newspapers. NYT is a better product.
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- devoply 9y agoA lot of that stuff is just virtue signalling. You don't actually have to believe in any of it to become its champion. That's what's wrong with a lot of stuff in the world, there are lots of champions of stuff that don't really practice what they preach, it's an easy way to claim leadership.
- AndrewKemendo 9y agoVery disappointing. As a 500 alum I would never have expected this, as the environment was very professional and there were a lot of powerful women in leadership positions. In fact if memory serves, at least at mountain view, the women were more numerous than the men. Kudos to Christine for being transparent, as expected.
- tosskey123 9y ago> In fact if memory serves, at least at mountain view, the women were more numerous than the men. Perhaps just not for the reasons you thought?
- Pfhreak 9y agoApologies, I misattributed a quote.
- origami777 9y agoWasn't that written by Chris Sacca, not Dave?
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- ajeet_dhaliwal 9y agoThis quote isn't from Dave McClure btw, it's Chris Sacca, another investor mentioned in the article.
- dang 9y agoWe detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14674708 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14674708 and marked it off-topic.
- gduncan12 9y agoWhen these reports about sexual harassment are so vague about what actually happened it does a disservice to everyone. How is anyone supposed to know where the line is between hitting on someone and sexual harassment? Many women like to play hard to get. Many men out there are just plain dumb when it comes to how they show their interest in a woman, not malicious. With more specifics they'd be able to learn what's right and what's not.
- tosskey123 9y agoIs that you Dave?
- nl 9y agoI assume you actually realise why they are vague, but in case you don't: it's polite. Many victims find it humiliating to talk about, and adding details often adds to this humiliation. In this case many details were published elsewhere already, in enough detail to offer little excuse.
- crawfordcomeaux 9y agoPerhaps by first developing some level of intimacy & emotional connection in a platonic context, being a supportive whole human being with well-defined/practiced/communicated boundaries, and occasionally having a meta discussion about the relationship to get on the same page? I don't need specifics since hitting on someone is a suboptimal strategy for connection. If you're just looking to get laid, try it out and let me know how it works for that.
- crispytx 9y ago"This guy f*cks!" - Russ Hanneman
- NDT 9y agoActually he doesn't.
- emanreus 9y agoSilly Valley at it again.
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- jacquesm 9y agoSomeone should proofread that bio at TC, it says they have 'more than $200 in assets under management'.
- andreasklinger 9y agowell it's "technically correct"
- smnscu 9y agoThank you for the good laugh. It paints quite the mental picture.
- beager 9y agoThat's how I characterize my beanie baby collection!
- baristaGeek 9y agoHow can a newly born organization build an organizational culture that avoids sexual misconduct as much as possible?
- moron4hire 9y agoIt's very easy. Be polite and considerate. To be considerate: to consider the feelings of another person. Have empathy. Be always ready to call out bad behavior, even if it hurts. It is so much easier to start when problems are small. Even when I've worked in teams of all guys, I've called out the sort of "locker room" talk that would be an HR nightmare of women were around. For two reasons: practice makes perfect, and it's still sexual harassment if those sorts of comments are making one of the other men uncomfortable. You don't know their intimate lives. They could be gay. They could be devoutly religious. Jerk, they could just be not a fratboy pig that needs to make comments during lunch about every woman that passes by. We do these things for everyone.
- kevmo 9y agoProactively: Be overt about your policies and values. Even though everyone will shift uncomfortably and roll their eyes, have occasional training sessions. Make a discussion of "what is not ok to say" part of your onboarding process. Have 1 on 1s. Collect anonymized feedback. Reactively: When offensive behavior occurs, it has to be nipped in the bud ASAP. A quick chat with a junior employee (and maybe perhaps handing over a pamphlet on sexual harassment) may be all it takes. Egregious and/or repeat offenders should be fired.
- femwarrior 9y agoBy hiring exclusively men, or exclusively women.
- pm90 9y agoThis is a good question, and perhaps the best thing to do is to have a clear policy in place on whats OK and whats not. Beyond that, of course its completely upto the person. You can never know how someone will behave in every circumstance, so you can only do so much.
- chenster 9y agoFull report from NYTimes https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/30/technology/women-entrepreneurs-speak-out-sexual-harassment.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/30/technology/women-entrepre...
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- ithinkinstereo 9y agoOh and he referenced his penis size at a startup event: https://twitter.com/founderofstick/status/880977488494469122 https://twitter.com/founderofstick/status/880977488494469122 Sarah Kunst, the woman quoted in the NYT, mentions that other women have reached out to her about McClure. Like Caldwell, also all women of color: https://twitter.com/sarahkunst/status/881004317674577920 https://twitter.com/sarahkunst/status/881004317674577920
- jee_accnt 9y agoNot gonna defend any harassment but this one's just nitpicking. He made a joke. I see him as the real life version of Erlich Bachman or Russ Hanneman from Silicon Valley. He is inappropriate, which is what makes him more likable (to some people). You could argue that its unprofessional, but then so is wearing t-shirt and shorts to work. Tech culture quite proudly does not care much about appearances.
- heartbreak 9y agoAwful lot of defensive green names popping up in this thread. Upstream there's one with obscure knowledge of the PR industry. Just a coincidence though, right?
- superplussed 9y agoI saw him speak at a fireside chat here in Berlin, and was struck by his overall juvenile attitude and idiocy. Given that that was his "shtick" I guess he was just hiding in plain sight. But I'm surprised that his poor judgement is such a shock to people when it's evident from his performances in public.
- kelnos 9y agoYeah, that's the thing I don't get. I'm certainly no stranger to foul language (2 minutes with me in a social setting and that's obvious), but his shtick always seemed to me to be about shock value and getting a reaction, and a certain amount of braggadocio around being an "outsider", which has always turned me off.
- orliesaurus 9y agoDave McClure? No way! Who is next?
- sagivo 9y ago> "The change I want to see is a startup environment where everyone, regardless of gender and background feels welcome and safe." So basically her message is "it's ok to be inappropriate and stay as partner in our firm. Our investors' money is more important than sexual misbehaving". Sounds like she doesn't really deliver on her change.
- plinkplonk 9y agosomething I've never understood. These guys (Kalanick, McClure) are multi millionaires, and could probably get any number of women to take interest in them on that basis alone. Why risk career suicide? Why would they need to hit on women at their workplaces? Why isn't the normal dating game (where they have a massive edge via being loaded) sufficient? I don't get it (at all). What am I missing? These guys seem to be (borderline) insane and incapable of rational thought. At the workplace do the work! Leave the political/religious/mating etc games outside.
- dotmanish 9y ago> These guys (Kalanick, McClure) are multi millionaires, and could probably get any number of women to take interest in them on that basis alone. General psychology pattern: People run after what can't be easily gained. Entrepreneurs, more so.
- plinkplonk 9y agoAh good point. I never thought about it like that. Thanks.
- crispytx 9y agoI don't think that's fair to lump Travis Kalanick into the same boat as Dave McClure. Kalanick didn't sexually harass anyone personally, his subordinates did. There isn't really any evidence that Travis Kalanick tried to cover anything up either. If you read that Susan Fowler blog post regarding sexual harassment at Uber, it sounds like she was sexually harassed by one person, and the HR department wouldn't do anything about it. To me that sounds like the harasser and the HR department are the guilty parties, not Travis Kalanick.
- plinkplonk 9y agoI concede the point (and it is a good one, Thank You). I don't follow this stuff in any great detail and those are just the first names I thought of. Erroneously, as it turned out, and as you correctly point out. Fwiw, I am not really interested in "social justice" issues and I use this forum mainly to get insight into purely technical issues, and I really should keep out of such politically/ideologically charged threads. Note to self. Thanks again. (me exits thread and topic)
- gcatalfamo 9y agoWithout defending anyone, My honest takeout by the whole sexual harassment threshold in the bay area or the US in general is that you could never end up together or even married with a colleague in that paranoid atmosphere. Which is exactly what I did where I live in Italy. Happily married and yes, after saying things to a colleague of mine that would have made me accused in the bay area.
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- kelnos 9y agoThere's a difference between being involved with a peer or with someone outside your reporting structure on the org chart, and being involved with someone who is inside your reporting structure. It's the differential in power when combined with sexual advances that creates problems, not the sexual advances alone. Of course, unwanted sexual advances are a problem regardless of the relationship of the two parties, but unwanted or wanted advances between two people with a superior/subordinate relationship is where we get into trouble. At all companies I've worked for in the US, there's never been a ban or stigma against colleagues dating, as long as there's no power differential between the two people. We still of course always expect people to behave professionally within a professional setting, but after-hours is your business. If relationships between people with a power differential are commonplace in Italy, that's... unfortunate.
- hbt 9y agoRelationships with a power differential are common in the US too. Women generally date up. This is especially common within professions with a high status since it is difficult to meet someone equal/better. View https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2016-who-marries-whom/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2016-who-marries-whom/ People generally are poor at reading others and end up pushing too far or getting offended easily (not referring to this case) What's more likely to happen is what has been highlighted in the "sex partition" - https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Office-Partition-Dividing-Workplace/dp/1493007947 https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Office-Partition-Dividing-Workpla... Men are more likely to create more barriers to protect themselves and prevent bad optics rather than walk on egg shells around women. This in turn limits opportunities for women (aka glass ceiling).
- thinbeige 9y agoSlightly OT: Everyone wants to become a CEO or VC. But the truth is you don't want to. You'll miss the times when you were a naive intern who could mess around with just everyone you met both on a private and professional level. Once you juggle millions it's over. The slightest advance is treated--with good reason--as sexual harassment.
- pm90 9y agoThat's only true strictly in the context of dating within the professional pool. I would argue that having more money and power is good in general, but NOT for dating subordinates and coworkers.
- thinbeige 9y agoYes, you are right, but it's not that easy. Also the private environment has its pitfalls. Without noticing you become quickly a public face the more powerful you get. Then, even in a private context you have to be careful who you approach, how you approach and how many. Often private and professional environments are not clearly separated as well. Let's take again the intern example: There's nothing wrong with a cocky intern approaching and kiss-closing dozens of women on a night out. There's nothing wrong doing this every Friday and Saturday. But some CEOs or VCs would face immediate trouble if such behaviour even in a private context would become public. Their life isn't better.
- smacktoward 9y agoThe only way the CEOs or VCs would get in professional trouble for that behavior is if the women who they were slobbering on were women who they have power over in their business relationships. Rich men can (and do) slobber on as many women they want to who they have no professional relationship with, and nobody has a problem with that. It's fine, as long as you don't bring that behavior into the workplace. It's not rocket science. You can fool around with as many women as you want, as long as those women aren't subordinate to you in their professional roles. It's when you insist on mixing your business with your pleasure that you get yourself into trouble. I legitimately cannot understand why so many men have so much trouble understanding this.
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- stevenj 9y agoThe sexual harassment allegations that have pervaded the tech industry this year is really awful to see. I hope each and every person is exposed and held accountable for their actions. It's inspiring to see all the women who are standing up and speaking out about these issues.
- diogenescynic 9y agoGlad to see that guy taking a fall. He's been a complete asshole when I've seen him interact with people. Couldn't have happened to a better person.