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I wonder why the street drugs are impure? I wonder why you can't get pharmaceutically pure heroin? I wonder why you think that opioid recovery is free of charge

I wonder why the street drugs are impure? I wonder why you can't get pharmaceutically pure heroin? I wonder why you think that opioid recovery is free of charge, is that just near you? I think what GP was trying to say was that trying to treat people in opioid recovery programs with opioids that can be abused in the same way as dirty street drugs is ineffectual and their use isn't being proscribed for recovery as much as it's being proscribed because it's profitable to someone. I agree with them. I don't think I interact with many opioid dependent people, but I've heard good anecdotes about Kratom, Marijuana, and Narcotics Anonymous for recovery. Two vilified plants and an organization that rejects outside help(or how ever the local chapter interprets their traditions) versus a potential goldmine of profits and feel-goods, I think I know which way the government is going to enforce their minimal efforts at drug rehabilitation.

girvo 9y ago
God if you think NA is a good successful program, I've got a bridge to sell you. I was a junkie for six years. Abstinence only doesn't work (where that's defined as working for a sizeable percentage of people who go through it). ORT does, and the facts and numbers back this up. Anecdotally, Suboxone saved my life. And I've got a number of dead friends to prove it (some of which had gone through NA multiple times, and two had the damnable Vivitrol injections). So I'm a bit biased here, but I find your comment quite naive, albeit typical for those who have an opinion on this life without having had much interaction with it, much less lived it.
- CodeWriter23 9y ago
  I won't dismiss your testimonial of your experience with DRT. But it is not the universal truth. I would ask, are you on long term therapy presently? Or was it a short term assist through withdrawal? We've got plenty of studies showing how a few Oxy sends every day people to the streets looking for heroin. The studies haven't caught up for Subs yet. I know I'm projecting, but I'm pretty sure when the studies come, they will tell the same story. Why am I so confident in that? This story has repeated itself since Heroin was introduced as DRT for Morphine addiction. Then Methadone for Heroin. It's a vicious cycle across generations of the cure is worse than the problem.
  - girvo 9y ago
    Suboxone has been around for decades. You are definitely projecting, and you do understand that buprenorphine is not a regular opiate, right? Partial agonist and also an antagonist. I was on it for 4 years, as I had a 2 gram a day heroin habit for six years prior. Please be careful making assumptions about things you do not understand.
    - CodeWriter23 9y ago
      The truth is, opiate receptors are a lot more binary in reality than this analog "theory" proffered by the purveyors of opioids. As with either substance, controlling the dosage obviously changes the level of effect on the recipient. In the U.K. they treated heroin addiction very similarly, with heroin. They'd give you enough to prevent withdrawal but not so much that you'd get high. PS working the 12 Steps would likely help you with that self-righteous condescension issue that has survived your chemical addiction.
- undersuit 9y ago
  Success is relative. The recovery programs that have sprung up from the ideals of Alcoholic Anonymous are not perfect, but the US Government has done very little to actually support those with substance issues. Quantitatively AA and NA are far more successful than all the money we throw at drug enforcement, and our drug enforcement policies actually harm the programs and the users, i.e. mandatory AA attendance in response to alcohol related offences and the danger to an NA individual's recovery when they do fall off the wagon and are picked up by law enforcement. I've seen the local success rate for AA, and I imagine that the NA programs are worse, but they are better than the alternatives we, the United States, present them.
jowsie 9y ago
You most definitely can get pharmaceutically pure heroin, it's used in many countries in hospitals every minute of every day, just not in the US because of its scary name. Some countries even give it to addicts instead of buprenorphine/methadone.

girvo 9y ago

God if you think NA is a good successful program, I've got a bridge to sell you. I was a junkie for six years. Abstinence only doesn't work (where that's defined as working for a sizeable percentage of people who go through it). ORT does, and the facts and numbers back this up. Anecdotally, Suboxone saved my life. And I've got a number of dead friends to prove it (some of which had gone through NA multiple times, and two had the damnable Vivitrol injections). So I'm a bit biased here, but I find your comment quite naive, albeit typical for those who have an opinion on this life without having had much interaction with it, much less lived it.

CodeWriter23 9y ago
I won't dismiss your testimonial of your experience with DRT. But it is not the universal truth. I would ask, are you on long term therapy presently? Or was it a short term assist through withdrawal? We've got plenty of studies showing how a few Oxy sends every day people to the streets looking for heroin. The studies haven't caught up for Subs yet. I know I'm projecting, but I'm pretty sure when the studies come, they will tell the same story. Why am I so confident in that? This story has repeated itself since Heroin was introduced as DRT for Morphine addiction. Then Methadone for Heroin. It's a vicious cycle across generations of the cure is worse than the problem.
- girvo 9y ago
  Suboxone has been around for decades. You are definitely projecting, and you do understand that buprenorphine is not a regular opiate, right? Partial agonist and also an antagonist. I was on it for 4 years, as I had a 2 gram a day heroin habit for six years prior. Please be careful making assumptions about things you do not understand.
  - CodeWriter23 9y ago
    The truth is, opiate receptors are a lot more binary in reality than this analog "theory" proffered by the purveyors of opioids. As with either substance, controlling the dosage obviously changes the level of effect on the recipient. In the U.K. they treated heroin addiction very similarly, with heroin. They'd give you enough to prevent withdrawal but not so much that you'd get high. PS working the 12 Steps would likely help you with that self-righteous condescension issue that has survived your chemical addiction.
undersuit 9y ago
Success is relative. The recovery programs that have sprung up from the ideals of Alcoholic Anonymous are not perfect, but the US Government has done very little to actually support those with substance issues. Quantitatively AA and NA are far more successful than all the money we throw at drug enforcement, and our drug enforcement policies actually harm the programs and the users, i.e. mandatory AA attendance in response to alcohol related offences and the danger to an NA individual's recovery when they do fall off the wagon and are picked up by law enforcement. I've seen the local success rate for AA, and I imagine that the NA programs are worse, but they are better than the alternatives we, the United States, present them.

jowsie 9y ago

You most definitely can get pharmaceutically pure heroin, it's used in many countries in hospitals every minute of every day, just not in the US because of its scary name. Some countries even give it to addicts instead of buprenorphine/methadone.