5 ms·

The most insidious effect this has, with drugs like Suboxone or Subutex, the courts are basically mandating prolonged opioid use by the defendants, all on some

The most insidious effect this has, with drugs like Suboxone or Subutex, the courts are basically mandating prolonged opioid use by the defendants, all on some Doctor's opinion that this is better. They should also seek the opinions of addicts who have sought or been forced into this treatment regime. Though I have not experienced it myself, the general consensus from the people whom I have spoken to who have, is that withdrawal from these drugs is much more severe than Heroin. If the point is to help the addict through the withdrawal process so they can get clean, it seems rapid detox protocols would be more expedient. But of course, as we all here on HN know, the real money is in a monthly subscription, not a one-time payment. And that's what Drug Replacement Therapy (or as pharma PR prefers, "Medically Assisted Treatment") is. It's switching to a dope man who wears a lab coat and uses a prescription pad instead of balloons. And a huge payola scheme for pharma and practitioners.

refurb 9y ago
So what you're saying is there is no benefit to person from switching from impure, potentially fatal street drugs to a pharmaceutically pure drug, free of charge that lets them live a relatively normal life? I take it your a proponent of drug abstinence rather than harm reduction?
- undersuit 9y ago
  I wonder why the street drugs are impure? I wonder why you can't get pharmaceutically pure heroin? I wonder why you think that opioid recovery is free of charge, is that just near you? I think what GP was trying to say was that trying to treat people in opioid recovery programs with opioids that can be abused in the same way as dirty street drugs is ineffectual and their use isn't being proscribed for recovery as much as it's being proscribed because it's profitable to someone. I agree with them. I don't think I interact with many opioid dependent people, but I've heard good anecdotes about Kratom, Marijuana, and Narcotics Anonymous for recovery. Two vilified plants and an organization that rejects outside help(or how ever the local chapter interprets their traditions) versus a potential goldmine of profits and feel-goods, I think I know which way the government is going to enforce their minimal efforts at drug rehabilitation.
  - girvo 9y ago
    God if you think NA is a good successful program, I've got a bridge to sell you. I was a junkie for six years. Abstinence only doesn't work (where that's defined as working for a sizeable percentage of people who go through it). ORT does, and the facts and numbers back this up. Anecdotally, Suboxone saved my life. And I've got a number of dead friends to prove it (some of which had gone through NA multiple times, and two had the damnable Vivitrol injections). So I'm a bit biased here, but I find your comment quite naive, albeit typical for those who have an opinion on this life without having had much interaction with it, much less lived it.
    - CodeWriter23 9y ago
      I won't dismiss your testimonial of your experience with DRT. But it is not the universal truth. I would ask, are you on long term therapy presently? Or was it a short term assist through withdrawal? We've got plenty of studies showing how a few Oxy sends every day people to the streets looking for heroin. The studies haven't caught up for Subs yet. I know I'm projecting, but I'm pretty sure when the studies come, they will tell the same story. Why am I so confident in that? This story has repeated itself since Heroin was introduced as DRT for Morphine addiction. Then Methadone for Heroin. It's a vicious cycle across generations of the cure is worse than the problem.
      - girvo 9y ago
        Suboxone has been around for decades. You are definitely projecting, and you do understand that buprenorphine is not a regular opiate, right? Partial agonist and also an antagonist. I was on it for 4 years, as I had a 2 gram a day heroin habit for six years prior. Please be careful making assumptions about things you do not understand.
        CodeWriter23 9y ago
        The truth is, opiate receptors are a lot more binary in reality than this analog "theory" proffered by the purveyors of opioids. As with either substance, controlling the dosage obviously changes the level of effect on the recipient. In the U.K. they treated heroin addiction very similarly, with heroin. They'd give you enough to prevent withdrawal but not so much that you'd get high. PS working the 12 Steps would likely help you with that self-righteous condescension issue that has survived your chemical addiction.
- CodeWriter23 9y ago
  When they state mandates this type of treatment, it is an increase in harm, to the addict. In general though, I'm ok with real harm reduction programs like needle exchanges, free condoms, and safe using zones. I'm not present in this life to stop anyone from using, far from it. But state mandated opiate use, that quite simply is a Chemical Holocaust.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

refurb 9y ago

So what you're saying is there is no benefit to person from switching from impure, potentially fatal street drugs to a pharmaceutically pure drug, free of charge that lets them live a relatively normal life? I take it your a proponent of drug abstinence rather than harm reduction?

undersuit 9y ago
I wonder why the street drugs are impure? I wonder why you can't get pharmaceutically pure heroin? I wonder why you think that opioid recovery is free of charge, is that just near you? I think what GP was trying to say was that trying to treat people in opioid recovery programs with opioids that can be abused in the same way as dirty street drugs is ineffectual and their use isn't being proscribed for recovery as much as it's being proscribed because it's profitable to someone. I agree with them. I don't think I interact with many opioid dependent people, but I've heard good anecdotes about Kratom, Marijuana, and Narcotics Anonymous for recovery. Two vilified plants and an organization that rejects outside help(or how ever the local chapter interprets their traditions) versus a potential goldmine of profits and feel-goods, I think I know which way the government is going to enforce their minimal efforts at drug rehabilitation.
- girvo 9y ago
  God if you think NA is a good successful program, I've got a bridge to sell you. I was a junkie for six years. Abstinence only doesn't work (where that's defined as working for a sizeable percentage of people who go through it). ORT does, and the facts and numbers back this up. Anecdotally, Suboxone saved my life. And I've got a number of dead friends to prove it (some of which had gone through NA multiple times, and two had the damnable Vivitrol injections). So I'm a bit biased here, but I find your comment quite naive, albeit typical for those who have an opinion on this life without having had much interaction with it, much less lived it.
  - CodeWriter23 9y ago
    I won't dismiss your testimonial of your experience with DRT. But it is not the universal truth. I would ask, are you on long term therapy presently? Or was it a short term assist through withdrawal? We've got plenty of studies showing how a few Oxy sends every day people to the streets looking for heroin. The studies haven't caught up for Subs yet. I know I'm projecting, but I'm pretty sure when the studies come, they will tell the same story. Why am I so confident in that? This story has repeated itself since Heroin was introduced as DRT for Morphine addiction. Then Methadone for Heroin. It's a vicious cycle across generations of the cure is worse than the problem.
    - girvo 9y ago
      Suboxone has been around for decades. You are definitely projecting, and you do understand that buprenorphine is not a regular opiate, right? Partial agonist and also an antagonist. I was on it for 4 years, as I had a 2 gram a day heroin habit for six years prior. Please be careful making assumptions about things you do not understand.
      - CodeWriter23 9y ago
        The truth is, opiate receptors are a lot more binary in reality than this analog "theory" proffered by the purveyors of opioids. As with either substance, controlling the dosage obviously changes the level of effect on the recipient. In the U.K. they treated heroin addiction very similarly, with heroin. They'd give you enough to prevent withdrawal but not so much that you'd get high. PS working the 12 Steps would likely help you with that self-righteous condescension issue that has survived your chemical addiction.
CodeWriter23 9y ago
When they state mandates this type of treatment, it is an increase in harm, to the addict. In general though, I'm ok with real harm reduction programs like needle exchanges, free condoms, and safe using zones. I'm not present in this life to stop anyone from using, far from it. But state mandated opiate use, that quite simply is a Chemical Holocaust.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]