7 ms·

One thing I'd like to vent about is that Scott seems to be making a lot of money selling e-mail addresses. I signed up for a couple different contests using un

by jwong_ 9y ago

One thing I'd like to vent about is that Scott seems to be making a lot of money selling e-mail addresses. I signed up for a couple different contests using unique e-mail addresses generated specifically for the contest (Yes, they were separate e-mails for separate contests; No, I did not double-dip my entrees). I was then signed up for 2-3 e-mail lists for 3rd party companies over the course of a couple weeks. These companies weren't even doing anything tangentially related to what Scott writes about(cheap flights). I wish it was more transparent that he was going to sign you up for these random companies.

sanj 9y ago
Another data point: I haven't seen any email indicating that Scott's selling the addresses.
- jwong_ 9y ago
  Have you signed up for any of the contests? I think it specifically targets people who entered contests.
  - joelrunyon 9y ago
    Signing up for a contest that SCF promoted is completely different than signing up for the SCF service itself. Big difference. I suspect you know it too.
bkidwell 9y ago
Hey, I'm just going to post the same response I used in the IndieHackers comment section for someone with a similar concern. Here's what I said: "Our subscribers are too important to us to ever sell their information to someone else. We never have and never will sell users information like that. Our only source of income is subscriptions and occasional advertisements in the free emails. Ruining our reputation to make a few extra bucks would be an extremely stupid decision on our end. With that said, we do run promotions with partners where we give away awesome vacation packages (Mexico and Tokyo recently). If anyone signs up for one of these promotions they are agreeing to the terms and conditions, which clearly state that by signing up for the giveaway the email address will be distributed to all of the partners involved in the giveaway (typically 4-5 other companies)." And their response: "Thanks for the reply! I looked through my emails and found that the emails started right after I entered a giveaway from you. So that explains it! You're right, it does say for the giveaway offer that you're signing up for emails. Sorry that I jumped to conclusions. It's just that I get a lot of spam and it's very annoying. Also, your partner emails provided no value to me at all." -- With that said, it looks like we could do a better job making it even more explicit (which we try to do in the emails announcing the giveaway). We'll work on this on our end and never intended to mislead anyone.
- jwong_ 9y ago
  I don't know if you've looked at what gets sent out, but the e-mails sent for the Giveaways are extremely spammy. I get that you probably added it somewhere in the giveaway text, but from a post somewhere, it was indicated the giveaways were more to garner attention, not as a profit-making venture. It turned me off completely when I started getting those. It gave me a negative impression on both Scott's Cheap Flights and on any companies that started sending me cold emails. Maybe you can be more selective in your partners, or perhaps work with the partners in what gets sent out. I'm very judicious in what I let get my attention, and seeing these kinds of random sales pitches with no actual value proposition was annoying. I went back to the giveaway and found the e-mail consent in the tiny text under the consent checkmark for signing up, so I can give you that for having the warning there now. It was not noticed when I signed up, however.
  - bkidwell 9y ago
    Yeah I hear you. I really appreciate the feedback as well. We only try to partner with high quality companies. For example this Tokyo one were running right now is with journy, ProductHunt, theSkimm, The Wirecutter, and Conde Nast Traveler. All legitimate companies. It's unfortunate that their emails are seen as spam because that's not good for anyone. We'll keep this in mind moving forward. Thank you again :-)
    - SSilver2k2 9y ago
      I have gotten messages from all of these, and they are complete spam. I'm glad I know it's your fault. What's done is done, I've unsubscribed.
      - mdns33 9y ago
        Oops. One customer lost. Nice way to market your company.
        ambicapter 9y ago
joelrunyon 9y ago
This isn't really "selling" email addresses. It seems much more like it's a lead gen strategy that multiple companies are participating. Providing an incentive to sign up isn't quite the same as sending all those subscribers to the giveaway that didn't opt-in to it?
- ghostly_s 9y ago
  As a consumer, the relevant word in that sentence is not "sell". The point is my email is being given to someone else, to do whatever they feel with it. Why would I care what in what form the original business is compensated?
  - joelrunyon 9y ago
    Well in that case, by signing up for the giveaway, you're consenting to "giving" your email address to ALL of those companies that are sponsoring it. So in that case, you should have a nice little talk with yourself about whether the trip you want to win is worth 5 new services having your email address. Either way, the person making that call is YOU, not SCF (or any of the other companies participating).
    - izacus 9y ago
      Can you show me exact notification on the website where he consented to sharing the email address? And you REALLY believe that using a search on a site suddenly is enough for your private data to be just given to any shady exploitative company on the planet? You really want to live in a world where you're badgered constantly and without pause by ads, scammers and phishers just because you want to use the internet?
      - joelrunyon 9y ago
        Yes, Here's a version that's hosted on ProductHunt - https://giveaway.producthunt.com/landing?promo_id=83848bb5-fc49-4e48-9c63-369c389044f7&campaign_id=1111 https://giveaway.producthunt.com/landing?promo_id=83848bb5-f... Specifically, you might be interested in this text right before the big "enter" button: > By entering this campaign I agree and consent to recieve emails, communications and promotions from Product Hunt Inc., theSkimm (a daily email newsletter to stay in the know), Scott's Cheap Flights, Journy, The Wirecutter and Conde Nast Traveler. You can hate the promotion, but you're certainly not required to join it. And, it's certainly not the same thing as Scott selling addresses of people already on his mailing list. As for this: > And you REALLY believe that using a search on a site suddenly is enough for your private data to be just given to any shady exploitative company on the planet? Using your words, can you show me the exact phrasing where that is happening anywhere in this example?
joelrunyon 9y ago
Posting this from below because you're making sound as if they're selling emails, when the terms of the giveaway are stated quite clearly. >Here's a version that's hosted on ProductHunt - https://giveaway.producthunt.com/landing?promo_id=83848bb5-fc49-4e48-9c63-369c389044f7&campaign_id=1111 https://giveaway.producthunt.com/landing?promo_id=83848bb5-f... > By entering this campaign I agree and consent to recieve emails, communications and promotions from Product Hunt Inc., theSkimm (a daily email newsletter to stay in the know), Scott's Cheap Flights, Journy, The Wirecutter and Conde Nast Traveler. >You can hate the promotion, but you're certainly not required to join it. And, it's certainly not the same thing as Scott selling addresses of people already on his mailing list.

by jwong_ 9y ago

sanj 9y ago

Another data point: I haven't seen any email indicating that Scott's selling the addresses.

jwong_ 9y ago
Have you signed up for any of the contests? I think it specifically targets people who entered contests.
- joelrunyon 9y ago
  Signing up for a contest that SCF promoted is completely different than signing up for the SCF service itself. Big difference. I suspect you know it too.

bkidwell 9y ago

Hey, I'm just going to post the same response I used in the IndieHackers comment section for someone with a similar concern. Here's what I said: "Our subscribers are too important to us to ever sell their information to someone else. We never have and never will sell users information like that. Our only source of income is subscriptions and occasional advertisements in the free emails. Ruining our reputation to make a few extra bucks would be an extremely stupid decision on our end. With that said, we do run promotions with partners where we give away awesome vacation packages (Mexico and Tokyo recently). If anyone signs up for one of these promotions they are agreeing to the terms and conditions, which clearly state that by signing up for the giveaway the email address will be distributed to all of the partners involved in the giveaway (typically 4-5 other companies)." And their response: "Thanks for the reply! I looked through my emails and found that the emails started right after I entered a giveaway from you. So that explains it! You're right, it does say for the giveaway offer that you're signing up for emails. Sorry that I jumped to conclusions. It's just that I get a lot of spam and it's very annoying. Also, your partner emails provided no value to me at all." -- With that said, it looks like we could do a better job making it even more explicit (which we try to do in the emails announcing the giveaway). We'll work on this on our end and never intended to mislead anyone.

jwong_ 9y ago
I don't know if you've looked at what gets sent out, but the e-mails sent for the Giveaways are extremely spammy. I get that you probably added it somewhere in the giveaway text, but from a post somewhere, it was indicated the giveaways were more to garner attention, not as a profit-making venture. It turned me off completely when I started getting those. It gave me a negative impression on both Scott's Cheap Flights and on any companies that started sending me cold emails. Maybe you can be more selective in your partners, or perhaps work with the partners in what gets sent out. I'm very judicious in what I let get my attention, and seeing these kinds of random sales pitches with no actual value proposition was annoying. I went back to the giveaway and found the e-mail consent in the tiny text under the consent checkmark for signing up, so I can give you that for having the warning there now. It was not noticed when I signed up, however.
- bkidwell 9y ago
  Yeah I hear you. I really appreciate the feedback as well. We only try to partner with high quality companies. For example this Tokyo one were running right now is with journy, ProductHunt, theSkimm, The Wirecutter, and Conde Nast Traveler. All legitimate companies. It's unfortunate that their emails are seen as spam because that's not good for anyone. We'll keep this in mind moving forward. Thank you again :-)
  - SSilver2k2 9y ago
    I have gotten messages from all of these, and they are complete spam. I'm glad I know it's your fault. What's done is done, I've unsubscribed.
    - mdns33 9y ago
      Oops. One customer lost. Nice way to market your company.
      - ambicapter 9y ago

joelrunyon 9y ago

This isn't really "selling" email addresses. It seems much more like it's a lead gen strategy that multiple companies are participating. Providing an incentive to sign up isn't quite the same as sending all those subscribers to the giveaway that didn't opt-in to it?

ghostly_s 9y ago
As a consumer, the relevant word in that sentence is not "sell". The point is my email is being given to someone else, to do whatever they feel with it. Why would I care what in what form the original business is compensated?
- joelrunyon 9y ago
  Well in that case, by signing up for the giveaway, you're consenting to "giving" your email address to ALL of those companies that are sponsoring it. So in that case, you should have a nice little talk with yourself about whether the trip you want to win is worth 5 new services having your email address. Either way, the person making that call is YOU, not SCF (or any of the other companies participating).
  - izacus 9y ago
    Can you show me exact notification on the website where he consented to sharing the email address? And you REALLY believe that using a search on a site suddenly is enough for your private data to be just given to any shady exploitative company on the planet? You really want to live in a world where you're badgered constantly and without pause by ads, scammers and phishers just because you want to use the internet?
    - joelrunyon 9y ago
      Yes, Here's a version that's hosted on ProductHunt - https://giveaway.producthunt.com/landing?promo_id=83848bb5-fc49-4e48-9c63-369c389044f7&campaign_id=1111 https://giveaway.producthunt.com/landing?promo_id=83848bb5-f... Specifically, you might be interested in this text right before the big "enter" button: > By entering this campaign I agree and consent to recieve emails, communications and promotions from Product Hunt Inc., theSkimm (a daily email newsletter to stay in the know), Scott's Cheap Flights, Journy, The Wirecutter and Conde Nast Traveler. You can hate the promotion, but you're certainly not required to join it. And, it's certainly not the same thing as Scott selling addresses of people already on his mailing list. As for this: > And you REALLY believe that using a search on a site suddenly is enough for your private data to be just given to any shady exploitative company on the planet? Using your words, can you show me the exact phrasing where that is happening anywhere in this example?

joelrunyon 9y ago

Posting this from below because you're making sound as if they're selling emails, when the terms of the giveaway are stated quite clearly. >Here's a version that's hosted on ProductHunt - https://giveaway.producthunt.com/landing?promo_id=83848bb5-fc49-4e48-9c63-369c389044f7&campaign_id=1111 https://giveaway.producthunt.com/landing?promo_id=83848bb5-f... > By entering this campaign I agree and consent to recieve emails, communications and promotions from Product Hunt Inc., theSkimm (a daily email newsletter to stay in the know), Scott's Cheap Flights, Journy, The Wirecutter and Conde Nast Traveler. >You can hate the promotion, but you're certainly not required to join it. And, it's certainly not the same thing as Scott selling addresses of people already on his mailing list.