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Something I've noticed that's lacking from most aggregators like Kayak and SkyScanner (my current fave), is the ability to increase the price of the ultra-budge

Something I've noticed that's lacking from most aggregators like Kayak and SkyScanner (my current fave), is the ability to increase the price of the ultra-budget carriers by adding their carry-on baggage fees and whatnot. I don't care about checked bag fees, but some of the carry-on fees are ridiculous ($60 per overhead item?). These budget carriers are cheating the system by looking like the cheapest option, when in reality one of the more expensive carriers is actually cheaper once you compare them apples-to-apples.

throwahey 9y ago
Hate to piggyback but I noticed that whenever this service gets posted on Reddit there are dozens of accounts that reply addressing Scott by name and have little to say. Upon checking their comment history, I saw that most users hadn't posted anything for months, or even ever. It was clear that there was some kind of voting manipulation going on, and as reddit goes, if something gains traction it's bound to get upvoted just because. It's a bit like Candy Japan, who posts here once a month with very little to say, and nothing vaguely technical in his articles. These kinds of posts just seem like blatant advertising. What are the rules for self-promotion of services on HN? It just seems dirty when there is a half-hearted article advertising a service without being labeled as an ad. Throwaway of course, because I'd rather not get attacked by some bots.
- arjunrc 9y ago
  Can you post some of these reddit links? I'd imagine several small businesses these days would opt for the "vote manipulation" marketing since its easy. (The Silicon Valley TV show had a similar plot point).
  - maksimum 9y ago
    I'll do you one better, "Reddit For Sale", investigatie journalism in a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxNvUWN3vYk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxNvUWN3vYk
- cbhl 9y ago
  I used Candy Japan for a bit, and I still rather like the articles that they post. I stopped subscribing because I didn't actually eat the candy; now I buy Bento boxes at my local Japanese grocery store, and I have a "Prime Surprise Sweets" Dash Button in my house. But I'd never have been open to the idea of subscription boxes (like the Pusheen Box) if it wasn't for their articles. Native advertising (where the content is an ad) is increasingly common; just look on YouTube, Instagram, Buzzfeed, or the average newspaper. Done well, it's win-win -- the customer learns about or feels good about a brand or business; the business gets better brand recall or a new customer or whatever. But the root cause is that people are having trouble making money online (banner ads, pre-roll ads, and text ads don't pay what they used to).
- jakobegger 9y ago
  If you hate to piggyback then don‘t do it.
jakub_g 9y ago
Out of curiosity, which airlines charge $60 for cabin bag? The most passenger-squeezing-until-recently airline in Europe (Ryanair) now allows two cabin bags for free (one standard ~55cm bag and one small bag). Apparently Wizzair charges 10-20€ for "large" (aka regular) cabin bag though, only small ~42 cm bag is allowed for free.
- _delirium 9y ago
  If you're comparing round-trip ticket prices, you should double the carry-on fee for comparison purposes, since the airlines that charge fees for carry-ons typically charge it on both outgoing and return legs. Spirit is an American low-cost carrier with fees in that range. It's $56 roundtrip for a carry-on bag if paid for at booking time, $76 if paid online after booking, or $114 if paid at the airport in person.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- jjallen 9y ago
  Wow does too. They actually make sure it's not too big sometimes as well. That said Wow can be 4-5x cheaper otherwise, so an extra ~$50 bucks for a carry on is still worth it. No entertainment and wifi but you'll sure get there cheaply!
- somecontext 9y ago
  For a carry-on in addition to one personal item: Allegiant charges $15--50 depending on when you pay. https://www.allegiantair.com/popup/optional-services-fees#baggage https://www.allegiantair.com/popup/optional-services-fees#ba... Frontier charges $30--60 depending on when you pay. https://www.flyfrontier.com/travel-information/baggage/#info https://www.flyfrontier.com/travel-information/baggage/#info Spirit apparently charges $35--100 (according to many news and other sites online), though maybe the last price is "on the airplane" only?
  - 77pt77 9y ago
    Wizzair in Europe. Even Ryanair doesn't charge for carry-ons.
jessriedel 9y ago
I have written to Kayak suggesting this in the past. Without such a feature, the hidden charges and nickle-and-diming will just get worse. The best explanation I heard (from elsewhere) was that if Kayak automatically included any fees, then some users might see a lower price on another site and mistakenly conclude the Kayak didn't actually have the lowest prices. But this seems obviously solvable by making it a non-default option and displaying the price as "$X ($Y fare + $Z fees)".
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  They could provide a search option to let you plug in what kind of baggage you wanted. So you could say 1 overhead, 2 checked bags, and then it could add in the cost (or show it broken out next to total cost)
downandout 9y ago
Add-on fees have gotten out of control, both in the hotel and airline space. There is a race to the bottom for having the lowest price to show on booking sites. This is a form of SEO for airlines and hotels. I am not familiar with any airlines that charge for carry-ons, but for example I know that many hotels in downtown Las Vegas have mandatory "resort fees" that on many nights actually exceed the nightly rate shown in booking engine search results - so the actual cost of staying is more than double the advertised rate. Most booking sites have heard so many complaints about this that they do show the total (including resort fees) just prior to booking. But the "headline rate" - the one shown in search results and used by the sites in arranging results by price - is the one sans resort fees. Taken to an extreme level, hotels could advertise a $1 nightly rate and a $200/nt "resort fee". It wouldn't surprise me if this actually started happening, given the competition among hotels to show up first in search results. It sounds like some budget airlines are headed in a similar direction.
- joelrunyon 9y ago
  Spirit airlines. Also many airlines are rolling out "basic economy fares" that don't include food/drink/carry-on and compete with low-cost carriers, but run on normal flights. What used to be "normal economy" now requires an "upgrade" or "add-on" - ugh.
  - ghostly_s 9y ago
    Flew United recently and just after boarding they made an announcement asking if anyone had purchased one of these "basic economy" fares, presumably so they could exclude them from the twelve cents worth of pretzel+soda service. What a ridiculous and insulting system (not to mention poorly-managed!).
    - joelrunyon 9y ago
      Yup - At least if you're going to discriminate against people sitting next to each other, go off the manifest & don't be so overt about it.
    - 9y ago
OkGoDoIt 9y ago
I 100% percent agree with you. But on a practical note, some advice for those traveling on these budget airlines: if you pack your carry-on in a backpack rather than a suitcase, every budget airline in Europe and the US that I have flown on will not give you a hard time about it. I personally use a very large backpack that holds at least as much as a carry-on suitcase, yet the fact that it is in backpack form means they count it as my personal item and don't give me a hard time. When I travel I usually have a smaller laptop bag inside a compartment in my backpack, once I get on the airplane I take that out and keep it with me as a personal item (so I can easily access it inflight) and I put my backpack overhead like I would a suitcase. I have successfully done this on Frontier, Allegiant, Spirit, and Ryan Air within the last year and have not had any issues.
- s0rce 9y ago
  This is also the best plan if you want to use the Basic Economy level on United and possibly other carriers. They will charge you for a conventional roll-a-board carry on suitcase.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > I personally use a very large backpack that holds at least as much as a carry-on suitcase, yet the fact that it is in backpack form means they count it as my personal item and don't give me a hard time. Interesting; they always officially state that the “personal item” must fit under the seat in front of you, which clearly a large backpack won't. No airline's ever enforced it that I've noticed, but then I've never flown Basic Economy (and haven't flown since it was a thing.) I wouldn't rely heavily, though, on that laxity not changing without notice.
  - whistlerbrk 9y ago
    A full backpacking pack at 60L+ will not. But a stuffed 35L pack will most likely fit.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - 9y ago
sgroppino 9y ago
What is the general policy on the so-called 'Ryanair jacket'? Can you get in trouble by packing 20kg of stuff in your coat?
- goldenkey 9y ago
  Have fun sweating your ballz off Fred
Xt-6 9y ago
Hipmunk can do that.
77pt77 9y ago
Or credit card fees. Pay by debit: 0 Pay by credit: 5 to 10%

throwahey 9y ago

Hate to piggyback but I noticed that whenever this service gets posted on Reddit there are dozens of accounts that reply addressing Scott by name and have little to say. Upon checking their comment history, I saw that most users hadn't posted anything for months, or even ever. It was clear that there was some kind of voting manipulation going on, and as reddit goes, if something gains traction it's bound to get upvoted just because. It's a bit like Candy Japan, who posts here once a month with very little to say, and nothing vaguely technical in his articles. These kinds of posts just seem like blatant advertising. What are the rules for self-promotion of services on HN? It just seems dirty when there is a half-hearted article advertising a service without being labeled as an ad. Throwaway of course, because I'd rather not get attacked by some bots.

arjunrc 9y ago
Can you post some of these reddit links? I'd imagine several small businesses these days would opt for the "vote manipulation" marketing since its easy. (The Silicon Valley TV show had a similar plot point).
- maksimum 9y ago
  I'll do you one better, "Reddit For Sale", investigatie journalism in a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxNvUWN3vYk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxNvUWN3vYk
cbhl 9y ago
I used Candy Japan for a bit, and I still rather like the articles that they post. I stopped subscribing because I didn't actually eat the candy; now I buy Bento boxes at my local Japanese grocery store, and I have a "Prime Surprise Sweets" Dash Button in my house. But I'd never have been open to the idea of subscription boxes (like the Pusheen Box) if it wasn't for their articles. Native advertising (where the content is an ad) is increasingly common; just look on YouTube, Instagram, Buzzfeed, or the average newspaper. Done well, it's win-win -- the customer learns about or feels good about a brand or business; the business gets better brand recall or a new customer or whatever. But the root cause is that people are having trouble making money online (banner ads, pre-roll ads, and text ads don't pay what they used to).
jakobegger 9y ago
If you hate to piggyback then don‘t do it.

jakub_g 9y ago

Out of curiosity, which airlines charge $60 for cabin bag? The most passenger-squeezing-until-recently airline in Europe (Ryanair) now allows two cabin bags for free (one standard ~55cm bag and one small bag). Apparently Wizzair charges 10-20€ for "large" (aka regular) cabin bag though, only small ~42 cm bag is allowed for free.

_delirium 9y ago
If you're comparing round-trip ticket prices, you should double the carry-on fee for comparison purposes, since the airlines that charge fees for carry-ons typically charge it on both outgoing and return legs. Spirit is an American low-cost carrier with fees in that range. It's $56 roundtrip for a carry-on bag if paid for at booking time, $76 if paid online after booking, or $114 if paid at the airport in person.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
jjallen 9y ago
Wow does too. They actually make sure it's not too big sometimes as well. That said Wow can be 4-5x cheaper otherwise, so an extra ~$50 bucks for a carry on is still worth it. No entertainment and wifi but you'll sure get there cheaply!
somecontext 9y ago
For a carry-on in addition to one personal item: Allegiant charges $15--50 depending on when you pay. https://www.allegiantair.com/popup/optional-services-fees#baggage https://www.allegiantair.com/popup/optional-services-fees#ba... Frontier charges $30--60 depending on when you pay. https://www.flyfrontier.com/travel-information/baggage/#info https://www.flyfrontier.com/travel-information/baggage/#info Spirit apparently charges $35--100 (according to many news and other sites online), though maybe the last price is "on the airplane" only?
- 77pt77 9y ago
  Wizzair in Europe. Even Ryanair doesn't charge for carry-ons.

jessriedel 9y ago

I have written to Kayak suggesting this in the past. Without such a feature, the hidden charges and nickle-and-diming will just get worse. The best explanation I heard (from elsewhere) was that if Kayak automatically included any fees, then some users might see a lower price on another site and mistakenly conclude the Kayak didn't actually have the lowest prices. But this seems obviously solvable by making it a non-default option and displaying the price as "$X ($Y fare + $Z fees)".

oh_sigh 9y ago
They could provide a search option to let you plug in what kind of baggage you wanted. So you could say 1 overhead, 2 checked bags, and then it could add in the cost (or show it broken out next to total cost)

downandout 9y ago

Add-on fees have gotten out of control, both in the hotel and airline space. There is a race to the bottom for having the lowest price to show on booking sites. This is a form of SEO for airlines and hotels. I am not familiar with any airlines that charge for carry-ons, but for example I know that many hotels in downtown Las Vegas have mandatory "resort fees" that on many nights actually exceed the nightly rate shown in booking engine search results - so the actual cost of staying is more than double the advertised rate. Most booking sites have heard so many complaints about this that they do show the total (including resort fees) just prior to booking. But the "headline rate" - the one shown in search results and used by the sites in arranging results by price - is the one sans resort fees. Taken to an extreme level, hotels could advertise a $1 nightly rate and a $200/nt "resort fee". It wouldn't surprise me if this actually started happening, given the competition among hotels to show up first in search results. It sounds like some budget airlines are headed in a similar direction.

joelrunyon 9y ago
Spirit airlines. Also many airlines are rolling out "basic economy fares" that don't include food/drink/carry-on and compete with low-cost carriers, but run on normal flights. What used to be "normal economy" now requires an "upgrade" or "add-on" - ugh.
- ghostly_s 9y ago
  Flew United recently and just after boarding they made an announcement asking if anyone had purchased one of these "basic economy" fares, presumably so they could exclude them from the twelve cents worth of pretzel+soda service. What a ridiculous and insulting system (not to mention poorly-managed!).
  - joelrunyon 9y ago
    Yup - At least if you're going to discriminate against people sitting next to each other, go off the manifest & don't be so overt about it.
  - 9y ago

OkGoDoIt 9y ago

I 100% percent agree with you. But on a practical note, some advice for those traveling on these budget airlines: if you pack your carry-on in a backpack rather than a suitcase, every budget airline in Europe and the US that I have flown on will not give you a hard time about it. I personally use a very large backpack that holds at least as much as a carry-on suitcase, yet the fact that it is in backpack form means they count it as my personal item and don't give me a hard time. When I travel I usually have a smaller laptop bag inside a compartment in my backpack, once I get on the airplane I take that out and keep it with me as a personal item (so I can easily access it inflight) and I put my backpack overhead like I would a suitcase. I have successfully done this on Frontier, Allegiant, Spirit, and Ryan Air within the last year and have not had any issues.

s0rce 9y ago
This is also the best plan if you want to use the Basic Economy level on United and possibly other carriers. They will charge you for a conventional roll-a-board carry on suitcase.
dragonwriter 9y ago
> I personally use a very large backpack that holds at least as much as a carry-on suitcase, yet the fact that it is in backpack form means they count it as my personal item and don't give me a hard time. Interesting; they always officially state that the “personal item” must fit under the seat in front of you, which clearly a large backpack won't. No airline's ever enforced it that I've noticed, but then I've never flown Basic Economy (and haven't flown since it was a thing.) I wouldn't rely heavily, though, on that laxity not changing without notice.
- whistlerbrk 9y ago
  A full backpacking pack at 60L+ will not. But a stuffed 35L pack will most likely fit.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- 9y ago

sgroppino 9y ago

What is the general policy on the so-called 'Ryanair jacket'? Can you get in trouble by packing 20kg of stuff in your coat?

goldenkey 9y ago
Have fun sweating your ballz off Fred

Xt-6 9y ago

Hipmunk can do that.

77pt77 9y ago

Or credit card fees. Pay by debit: 0 Pay by credit: 5 to 10%