3 ms·

High end NAND is made in China, but in factories owned by Korean, American, Japanese, and Taiwanese companies.

oblio 9y ago
It's almost like China is still a (huge) developing country! :)
dragontamer 9y ago
Erm, low-end NAND Flash is made in China. Lots of it, but its low-end. Intel, Micron, Samsung, and Toshiba are making 3d-NAND, which has superior specifications... allowing controllers to read / write them as Triple-Level without very many endurance problems. And the only locations for 3d-NAND are: * Japan: http://www.anandtech.com/show/10184/toshiba-to-build-a-new-fab-to-produce-bics-nand-flash http://www.anandtech.com/show/10184/toshiba-to-build-a-new-f... * (South) Korea: https://www.engadget.com/2013/08/05/samsung-ships-first-3d-vertical-nand-flash/ https://www.engadget.com/2013/08/05/samsung-ships-first-3d-v... * USA: Idaho for Micron's 3D Flash. IIRC they've partnered with Intel... which is primarily Israel and USA as far as manufacturing goes. --------- Now... name me a Chinese manufacturer of 32-layer (or more) 3D Flash. Toshiba hit 96-layers IIRC. Hint: You can't. China doesn't make high-end 3d NAND Flash. At all. Maybe they will catch-up in a few years, but at the moment, they are not.
- justicezyx 9y ago
  The point is that the Gap is narrowing not that there is no Gap.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- rhino369 9y ago
  I'm not sure I'd call 15nm 2D NAND "low end." But when those Chinese fab lines were opened, they were cutting edge. Nearly all the engineering is done somewhere that isn't in China, which was my point.
  - ksec 9y ago
    I am not aware of any 15nm NAND made by any Chinese companies, correct me if I am wrong. The parents was right in regards to NAND and Fabs. At least in the next 2 - 4 years time frame. The plan for China, at least up to last year was to bump tens of billions of tax dollar and incentives, along with billions of investment from private sector ( Which isn't really private, but lets not go on with that for now ) to builds Fabs. Since China is now officially the largest Smartphone and electronics market, they want to source more components from domestic market rather then relying on foreign companies. In hope to build an Semi Con Industry that rivals Korea Japan and even US. Hence you see investment into SMIC, and a lot of people were poached from TSMC, Global F and Samsung. In a typical fashion of Chinese Race to the bottom, they could sell the NAND at BOM cost and gain market shares. I am sceptical whether this works for NAND or Fabs in general. 3D NAND from other companies should have both quality and cost / GB advantage.

It's almost like China is still a (huge) developing country! :)

Erm, low-end NAND Flash is made in China. Lots of it, but its low-end. Intel, Micron, Samsung, and Toshiba are making 3d-NAND, which has superior specifications... allowing controllers to read / write them as Triple-Level without very many endurance problems. And the only locations for 3d-NAND are: * Japan: http://www.anandtech.com/show/10184/toshiba-to-build-a-new-fab-to-produce-bics-nand-flash http://www.anandtech.com/show/10184/toshiba-to-build-a-new-f... * (South) Korea: https://www.engadget.com/2013/08/05/samsung-ships-first-3d-vertical-nand-flash/ https://www.engadget.com/2013/08/05/samsung-ships-first-3d-v... * USA: Idaho for Micron's 3D Flash. IIRC they've partnered with Intel... which is primarily Israel and USA as far as manufacturing goes. --------- Now... name me a Chinese manufacturer of 32-layer (or more) 3D Flash. Toshiba hit 96-layers IIRC. Hint: You can't. China doesn't make high-end 3d NAND Flash. At all. Maybe they will catch-up in a few years, but at the moment, they are not.

justicezyx 9y ago
The point is that the Gap is narrowing not that there is no Gap.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
rhino369 9y ago
I'm not sure I'd call 15nm 2D NAND "low end." But when those Chinese fab lines were opened, they were cutting edge. Nearly all the engineering is done somewhere that isn't in China, which was my point.
- ksec 9y ago
  I am not aware of any 15nm NAND made by any Chinese companies, correct me if I am wrong. The parents was right in regards to NAND and Fabs. At least in the next 2 - 4 years time frame. The plan for China, at least up to last year was to bump tens of billions of tax dollar and incentives, along with billions of investment from private sector ( Which isn't really private, but lets not go on with that for now ) to builds Fabs. Since China is now officially the largest Smartphone and electronics market, they want to source more components from domestic market rather then relying on foreign companies. In hope to build an Semi Con Industry that rivals Korea Japan and even US. Hence you see investment into SMIC, and a lot of people were poached from TSMC, Global F and Samsung. In a typical fashion of Chinese Race to the bottom, they could sell the NAND at BOM cost and gain market shares. I am sceptical whether this works for NAND or Fabs in general. 3D NAND from other companies should have both quality and cost / GB advantage.