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> /r/golang consensus is against using named values. /r/golang is a toxic subreddit and I wouldn't take anything said there for face value. Dave Cheney deleted

by camus2 9y ago

> /r/golang consensus is against using named values. /r/golang is a toxic subreddit and I wouldn't take anything said there for face value. Dave Cheney deleted his account there and the go team itself wanted to delete that subreddit. So no, /r/golang represents only /r/golang and certainly not the go community as a whole. /r/golang favorite pass time is to take some piece of code or a library and humiliate its author(s) publicly for not writing go like /r/golang wants go to be written.

KirinDave 9y ago
Sounds like #scala used to be.
laumars 9y ago
A couple of months ago I had someone on /r/golang taking credit for one of my own projects. I just ignored him and took it as a compliment but now I'm not sure if that's an insult (jk) Disclaimer: I don't follow /r/golang. I was looking at Github traffic and noticed quite a few requests with Reddit as their refer(r)er.
weberc2 9y ago
Dramatic much? There's nothing "toxic" about /r/golang. It's mostly boring content, and the criticism is rarely worse than what's going on in this very thread (which is itself mild by HN standards). The official rationale for why Dave and the Go team left has changed several times, but it has always been over-dramatic or vague (e.g., "We need to shut down /r/golang because the CEO of reddit might edit our posts like he did with /r/The_Donald!"). At any rate, their opinions of /r/golang don't make it toxic, and /r/golang is a reasonable approximation of the broader community's opinions--at least as good as anywhere except maybe the mailing list.
- camus2 9y ago
  > There's nothing "toxic" about /r/golang The fact that go maintainers themselves wanted to get rid of /r/golang actually proves otherwise. As for Dave Cheney, he left that sub long before any Trump drama on reddit. Obviously the people who act in a toxic fashion don't think themselves as such and don't see the toxicity even when it blatantly exists. But that's not my point. /r/golang is officially outside Go community since even go maintainers disowned it and want nothing to do with it. Whatever drama happening there is not representative of the go community, nor whatever /r/golang thinks as "idiomatic".
  - KirinDave 9y ago
    Good to know. Thanks for sharing this, as it's helpful for other folks who now have Go to deal with.
  - weberc2 9y ago
    It doesn't "prove" anything. It only proves that the maintainers are intolerant of the community, for whatever reason. > Obviously the people who act in a toxic fashion don't think themselves as such and don't see the toxicity even when it blatantly exists. Maybe I "act in a toxic fashion" or maybe your standards for "toxic" are just extremely low. Fortunately, we don't have to agree on the absolute threshold for toxic, we can make relative comparisons; as /u/jerf stated, if /r/golang is toxic, this thread is radioactive. Anyway, it's rude to make unfalsifiable implications about other people, or to speak as though your own subjective thresholds are absolute ("...toxicity even when it blatantly exists"); and it's foolishness when your own standard for "toxic" is so much lower than the common use. > /r/golang is officially outside Go community since even go maintainers disowned it and want nothing to do with it. You're confusing the Go community with the various subcommunities under the maintainers' moderation. You have to provide a better rationale for why /r/golang is an invalid sampling of Gophers for the purpose of named returns; "because the maintainers don't like it" is not very compelling.
    - geezerjay 9y ago
      > It doesn't "prove" anything. It only proves that the maintainers are intolerant of the community, for whatever reason. Wow. What a way to prove the parent's point. >Maybe I "act in a toxic fashion" or maybe your standards for "toxic" are just extremely low. Honestly, you appear to make it your own personal point to act like a dick, and for no reason at all. That's very toxic, and in a very needless manner. If your behavior is any indication of what goes on in /r/golang, no wonder relevant people decided to abandon it. There's nothing to be gained by sticking around people who make it their point to act like dicks.
- KirinDave 9y ago
  Quite frankly, your post makes me think maybe /r/golang is in fact toxic. You fight accusations of toxicity with examples of the community being great, not with defensive and vague posts.
  - weberc2 9y ago
    You can think what you like. My post wasn't defensive or vague, but then again who can disprove accusations about their motives? The OP was criticizing a community I don't belong to, and which I even criticized in the post above; so you can believe me if you like or not. As for "vague"; it's hard to be too specific when the OP would only speak about unqualified "toxicity".
- jerf 9y ago
  "and the criticism is rarely worse than what's going on in this very thread (which is itself mild by HN standards)." I'll echo that. If /r/golang is "toxic" this HN conversation is outright radioactive. This is far worse than any day-to-day thread on /r/golang. As I understand it, the basic reason the Golang authors themselves decided to leave wasn't the "golang" part of "r/golang", but the "r" part; Brad Fitzpatrick, having run LiveJournal, was incredibly and IMHO justifiably offended by the revelation that Reddit admins had been editing people's posts, because of his personal experiences and ethics. It also turned out that the Golang people had not started the community, but accidentally thought they owned it none-the-less, which IMHO puts a new light on how the /r/golang community reacted when the Go authors attempted to lay down rules on how it works. Of course the community reacted poorly to what amounted to people just dropping by and asserting tons of ownership over the community they hadn't created and only marginally participated in. Nobody should expect that to just go swimmingly. But at the core it was all a misunderstanding as to who owned the community, which has since been resolved.

by camus2 9y ago

KirinDave 9y ago

Sounds like #scala used to be.

laumars 9y ago

A couple of months ago I had someone on /r/golang taking credit for one of my own projects. I just ignored him and took it as a compliment but now I'm not sure if that's an insult (jk) Disclaimer: I don't follow /r/golang. I was looking at Github traffic and noticed quite a few requests with Reddit as their refer(r)er.

weberc2 9y ago

Dramatic much? There's nothing "toxic" about /r/golang. It's mostly boring content, and the criticism is rarely worse than what's going on in this very thread (which is itself mild by HN standards). The official rationale for why Dave and the Go team left has changed several times, but it has always been over-dramatic or vague (e.g., "We need to shut down /r/golang because the CEO of reddit might edit our posts like he did with /r/The_Donald!"). At any rate, their opinions of /r/golang don't make it toxic, and /r/golang is a reasonable approximation of the broader community's opinions--at least as good as anywhere except maybe the mailing list.

camus2 9y ago
> There's nothing "toxic" about /r/golang The fact that go maintainers themselves wanted to get rid of /r/golang actually proves otherwise. As for Dave Cheney, he left that sub long before any Trump drama on reddit. Obviously the people who act in a toxic fashion don't think themselves as such and don't see the toxicity even when it blatantly exists. But that's not my point. /r/golang is officially outside Go community since even go maintainers disowned it and want nothing to do with it. Whatever drama happening there is not representative of the go community, nor whatever /r/golang thinks as "idiomatic".
- KirinDave 9y ago
  Good to know. Thanks for sharing this, as it's helpful for other folks who now have Go to deal with.
- weberc2 9y ago
  It doesn't "prove" anything. It only proves that the maintainers are intolerant of the community, for whatever reason. > Obviously the people who act in a toxic fashion don't think themselves as such and don't see the toxicity even when it blatantly exists. Maybe I "act in a toxic fashion" or maybe your standards for "toxic" are just extremely low. Fortunately, we don't have to agree on the absolute threshold for toxic, we can make relative comparisons; as /u/jerf stated, if /r/golang is toxic, this thread is radioactive. Anyway, it's rude to make unfalsifiable implications about other people, or to speak as though your own subjective thresholds are absolute ("...toxicity even when it blatantly exists"); and it's foolishness when your own standard for "toxic" is so much lower than the common use. > /r/golang is officially outside Go community since even go maintainers disowned it and want nothing to do with it. You're confusing the Go community with the various subcommunities under the maintainers' moderation. You have to provide a better rationale for why /r/golang is an invalid sampling of Gophers for the purpose of named returns; "because the maintainers don't like it" is not very compelling.
  - geezerjay 9y ago
    > It doesn't "prove" anything. It only proves that the maintainers are intolerant of the community, for whatever reason. Wow. What a way to prove the parent's point. >Maybe I "act in a toxic fashion" or maybe your standards for "toxic" are just extremely low. Honestly, you appear to make it your own personal point to act like a dick, and for no reason at all. That's very toxic, and in a very needless manner. If your behavior is any indication of what goes on in /r/golang, no wonder relevant people decided to abandon it. There's nothing to be gained by sticking around people who make it their point to act like dicks.
KirinDave 9y ago
Quite frankly, your post makes me think maybe /r/golang is in fact toxic. You fight accusations of toxicity with examples of the community being great, not with defensive and vague posts.
- weberc2 9y ago
  You can think what you like. My post wasn't defensive or vague, but then again who can disprove accusations about their motives? The OP was criticizing a community I don't belong to, and which I even criticized in the post above; so you can believe me if you like or not. As for "vague"; it's hard to be too specific when the OP would only speak about unqualified "toxicity".
jerf 9y ago
"and the criticism is rarely worse than what's going on in this very thread (which is itself mild by HN standards)." I'll echo that. If /r/golang is "toxic" this HN conversation is outright radioactive. This is far worse than any day-to-day thread on /r/golang. As I understand it, the basic reason the Golang authors themselves decided to leave wasn't the "golang" part of "r/golang", but the "r" part; Brad Fitzpatrick, having run LiveJournal, was incredibly and IMHO justifiably offended by the revelation that Reddit admins had been editing people's posts, because of his personal experiences and ethics. It also turned out that the Golang people had not started the community, but accidentally thought they owned it none-the-less, which IMHO puts a new light on how the /r/golang community reacted when the Go authors attempted to lay down rules on how it works. Of course the community reacted poorly to what amounted to people just dropping by and asserting tons of ownership over the community they hadn't created and only marginally participated in. Nobody should expect that to just go swimmingly. But at the core it was all a misunderstanding as to who owned the community, which has since been resolved.