4 ms·

I'm not the OP you're asking, but here's one example where a Dutch man was jailed for insulting the king: http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/07/man-jai

by cr1895 9y ago

I'm not the OP you're asking, but here's one example where a Dutch man was jailed for insulting the king: http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/07/man-jailed-for-insulting-the-dutch-king/ http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/07/man-jailed-for... edit: more examples from some other European countries http://www.euronews.com/2016/04/15/beyond-a-joke-7-countries-where-is-it-a-criminal-offence-to-insult-a-head-of http://www.euronews.com/2016/04/15/beyond-a-joke-7-countries...

tmalsburg2 9y ago
While I agree that it's bad to prevent people from speaking poorly about a king, that's not representative of the kinds of things that the German law is addressing. As such this is not a very strong example, IMO.
- cr1895 9y ago
  You asked for examples in which free speech was too limited and resulted in a poor outcome for society. You asked that in response to: "We need more freedom of speech, not less. The US is miles ahead of us in this respect. Here in Europe, we're missing that fundamental value of "I disagree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it". Instead, it's more like "I disagree with what you say so I'm going to try to get you arrested for it"." Therefore my example is germane and quite a clear example given your question. Here are more examples (again Netherlands, Switzerland, Poland, Spain): http://www.euronews.com/2016/04/15/beyond-a-joke-7-countries-where-is-it-a-criminal-offence-to-insult-a-head-of http://www.euronews.com/2016/04/15/beyond-a-joke-7-countries...
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
tremon 9y ago
That would be illegal in the US as well, under defamation or libel.
- cr1895 9y ago
  That's not how it works, and this is fundamentally different. In the US, the offended person would have to sue the offender for libel or defamation. The State would not be bringing charges because this is not a criminal matter; it is a civil matter. Nor is it so obviously defamation or libel, as you suggest. The lese majeste law is not a matter of the King suing the offender. It is a matter of the Dutch state pursuing criminal prosecution.

by cr1895 9y ago

tmalsburg2 9y ago

While I agree that it's bad to prevent people from speaking poorly about a king, that's not representative of the kinds of things that the German law is addressing. As such this is not a very strong example, IMO.

cr1895 9y ago
You asked for examples in which free speech was too limited and resulted in a poor outcome for society. You asked that in response to: "We need more freedom of speech, not less. The US is miles ahead of us in this respect. Here in Europe, we're missing that fundamental value of "I disagree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it". Instead, it's more like "I disagree with what you say so I'm going to try to get you arrested for it"." Therefore my example is germane and quite a clear example given your question. Here are more examples (again Netherlands, Switzerland, Poland, Spain): http://www.euronews.com/2016/04/15/beyond-a-joke-7-countries-where-is-it-a-criminal-offence-to-insult-a-head-of http://www.euronews.com/2016/04/15/beyond-a-joke-7-countries...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

tremon 9y ago

That would be illegal in the US as well, under defamation or libel.

cr1895 9y ago
That's not how it works, and this is fundamentally different. In the US, the offended person would have to sue the offender for libel or defamation. The State would not be bringing charges because this is not a criminal matter; it is a civil matter. Nor is it so obviously defamation or libel, as you suggest. The lese majeste law is not a matter of the King suing the offender. It is a matter of the Dutch state pursuing criminal prosecution.