8 ms·

Could you elaborate? TBH I don't know much about incompatibilities CPUs can cause in Linux world.

by d33 9y ago

zdkl 9y ago
I'd be concerned about power usage and thermal dissipation, apart from that the Ryzen & co procs look awesome.
- dom0 9y ago
  Zen has shown excellent efficiency figures for both the CPU itself and entire systems. That does not necessarily translate to good mobile systems, but is a good sign.
  - kobeya 9y ago
    I think the implied question was more about system software compatibility. Power management tooling is often vendor specific.
- d33 9y ago
  This might sound naive, but shouldn't this be implemented within ACPI/APM? Or does pretty much every CPU family need special code for that anyway?
- tutanchamun 9y ago
  Why would you be concerned about power usage and thermal dissipation? Are you concerned the power saving features don't work as good as they could with Linux (like with Skylake? at first)? Otherwise the reviews of the AMD Ryzen CPUs put AMDs 8 core parts around Intels high end 4 core parts [0][1][2][3][4][5][6][7] in terms of power consumptions, which is promising looking at the announced 4 core mobile APUs with Vega graphics. Also nice for thermal dissipation: AMD uses solder for the heatspreader, which helps with thermal dissipation. My only concern would be the idle power consumption since the PCs are idle most of the time, which seems to be ~10 watt higher than Skylake/Kaby Lake due to more power hungry mainboards. But maybe that can be fixed in Notebooks? [0] especially the R7 1700 which seems to run at a sweet spot with 3 ghz base clock. [1] http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-1700-cpu-review,5009-8.html http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-1700-cpu-rev... [2] https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ryzen-strictly-technical.2500572/ https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ryzen-strictly-technica... > 850 points in Cinebench 15 at 30W is quite telling. Or not telling, but absolutely massive. Zeppelin can reach absolutely monstrous and unseen levels of efficiency, as long as it operates within its ideal frequency range. [3] http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8081/amd-ryzen-7-1700-1700x-cpu-review/index11.html http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8081/amd-ryzen-7-1700-1700x... [4] https://www.bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/amd-ryzen-7-1700-review/6/ https://www.bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/amd-ryzen-7-1700-revie... [5] http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/103270-amd-ryzen-7-1700-14nm-zen/?page=7 http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/103270-amd-ryzen-7-1700-14... [6] https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.computerbase.de%2F2017-03%2Famd-ryzen-1800x-1700x-1700-test%2F6%2F&edit-text= https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev... [7] https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hardwareluxx.de%2Findex.php%2Fartikel%2Fhardware%2Fprozessoren%2F42250-amd-ryzen-7-1700-im-test-der-interessanteste-ryzen-7-prozessor.html%3Fstart%3D1&edit-text= https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev...
  - zdkl 9y ago
    It's generally the case that clever software optimisations hit intel's platform first due to it's spread. Here's hoping AMD gathers interest in providing platform specific optimisations
    - tutanchamun 9y ago
      Yes, that's true. In fact I think the software side is what's holding back AMD the most (together with OEM's producing Notebooks which are subpar compared to Notebooks with Intel CPU - but maybe that is different in other regions).
      - zdkl 9y ago
        Basically, let's hope the fintech guys take a liking to it, right? ;)
DCKing 9y ago
It's not processors themselves that are an issue usually. Usually the difficulties in getting things running is the booting the system, and the motherboard chipset and device drivers. It's also to do with the stuff that goes along with just "running" but CPU features. Does power management work well? Does ECC work at all? Is virtualization relatively bug free? Since laptops are full computers packed with all hardware inside, you don't want any driver issues on your system and neither do you want power management issues. That's usually what people mean when they express concerns about new CPU platforms and Linux. From what I've heard Ryzen runs Linux pretty well on desktops at least, so let's hope they can keep up the good work on laptops too.
- rlonstein 9y ago
  > From what I've heard Ryzen runs Linux pretty well on desktops Confirmed. I'm running one here-- 1700 (8c/16t), no-OC, stock cooler, X370 chipset and Samsung-based DDR4-3200 RAM-- on Ubuntu Xenial/Elementary and it's been rock solid and temps <50C doing desktop, development, and VM's.
  - noir_lord 9y ago
    Same, 1700, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance at 2666, 4 weeks not a single problem and I've battered it, was transcoding 30,000 multiple page tiffs yesterday (don't ask..). The thing is a straight out monster for a 300 quid processor.
    - mkl 9y ago
      > transcoding 30,000 multiple page tiffs yesterday Um, I have to ask. The only thing I've used multipage TIFFs for is turning processed page scans into a PDF. But not nearly that scale. What was the context?
      - noir_lord 9y ago
        Exactly that for an enterprise web app that attached all the physical paperwork of an order to the digital record. Original dev just shoved all 30,000 in the webroot as multipage tiffs, average size 25Mb-30Mb. End users couldn't easily view attached scans (multipage tiff isn't that prevalent), converting to pdf with jpeg compression took the first set from 76.8Gb to 6Gb with far less traffic on the network and much easier handling (PDF is far better supported).
nailer 9y ago
> TBH I don't know much about incompatibilities CPUs can cause in Linux world. I remember one, a long time ago. This is from memory so it might not be 100% correct but the main details are true, and it's an interesting story: CPUs have identifiers on them. GenuineIntel, AuthenticAMD, etc, models, plus a number to indicate what generation. Pentiums were P1, P2, P3, etc. Intel released the Pentium 4 (one of their worst chip designs - the next one, Core, was based on Pentium 3 rather than Pentium 4). Which Linux saw as a P... FIFTEEN? Some jackass at Intel though 'IV' - ie roman numbers for four - was a cool thing to put as the CPU ID. So Linux saw 'Pentium 15' and freaked the fuck out while people confirmed that yes, Intel were actually stamping Pentium 4s as '15'.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- astrodust 9y ago
  It's like the slipshod naming of an ISO volume.
- TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
  This confused me because I couldn't see how that ASCII would relate to the number. Turns out they chose 0xF for a different reason: http://linux.omnipotent.net/article.php?article_id=11457 http://linux.omnipotent.net/article.php?article_id=11457 It was to work around Windows NT!
  - nailer 9y ago
    Thanks for the correction!

Could you elaborate? TBH I don't know much about incompatibilities CPUs can cause in Linux world.

by d33 9y ago

Could you elaborate? TBH I don't know much about incompatibilities CPUs can cause in Linux world.

zdkl 9y ago

I'd be concerned about power usage and thermal dissipation, apart from that the Ryzen & co procs look awesome.

dom0 9y ago
Zen has shown excellent efficiency figures for both the CPU itself and entire systems. That does not necessarily translate to good mobile systems, but is a good sign.
- kobeya 9y ago
  I think the implied question was more about system software compatibility. Power management tooling is often vendor specific.
d33 9y ago
This might sound naive, but shouldn't this be implemented within ACPI/APM? Or does pretty much every CPU family need special code for that anyway?
tutanchamun 9y ago
Why would you be concerned about power usage and thermal dissipation? Are you concerned the power saving features don't work as good as they could with Linux (like with Skylake? at first)? Otherwise the reviews of the AMD Ryzen CPUs put AMDs 8 core parts around Intels high end 4 core parts [0][1][2][3][4][5][6][7] in terms of power consumptions, which is promising looking at the announced 4 core mobile APUs with Vega graphics. Also nice for thermal dissipation: AMD uses solder for the heatspreader, which helps with thermal dissipation. My only concern would be the idle power consumption since the PCs are idle most of the time, which seems to be ~10 watt higher than Skylake/Kaby Lake due to more power hungry mainboards. But maybe that can be fixed in Notebooks? [0] especially the R7 1700 which seems to run at a sweet spot with 3 ghz base clock. [1] http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-1700-cpu-review,5009-8.html http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-1700-cpu-rev... [2] https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ryzen-strictly-technical.2500572/ https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ryzen-strictly-technica... > 850 points in Cinebench 15 at 30W is quite telling. Or not telling, but absolutely massive. Zeppelin can reach absolutely monstrous and unseen levels of efficiency, as long as it operates within its ideal frequency range. [3] http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8081/amd-ryzen-7-1700-1700x-cpu-review/index11.html http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8081/amd-ryzen-7-1700-1700x... [4] https://www.bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/amd-ryzen-7-1700-review/6/ https://www.bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/amd-ryzen-7-1700-revie... [5] http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/103270-amd-ryzen-7-1700-14nm-zen/?page=7 http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/103270-amd-ryzen-7-1700-14... [6] https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.computerbase.de%2F2017-03%2Famd-ryzen-1800x-1700x-1700-test%2F6%2F&edit-text= https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev... [7] https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hardwareluxx.de%2Findex.php%2Fartikel%2Fhardware%2Fprozessoren%2F42250-amd-ryzen-7-1700-im-test-der-interessanteste-ryzen-7-prozessor.html%3Fstart%3D1&edit-text= https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev...
- zdkl 9y ago
  It's generally the case that clever software optimisations hit intel's platform first due to it's spread. Here's hoping AMD gathers interest in providing platform specific optimisations
  - tutanchamun 9y ago
    Yes, that's true. In fact I think the software side is what's holding back AMD the most (together with OEM's producing Notebooks which are subpar compared to Notebooks with Intel CPU - but maybe that is different in other regions).
    - zdkl 9y ago
      Basically, let's hope the fintech guys take a liking to it, right? ;)

DCKing 9y ago

It's not processors themselves that are an issue usually. Usually the difficulties in getting things running is the booting the system, and the motherboard chipset and device drivers. It's also to do with the stuff that goes along with just "running" but CPU features. Does power management work well? Does ECC work at all? Is virtualization relatively bug free? Since laptops are full computers packed with all hardware inside, you don't want any driver issues on your system and neither do you want power management issues. That's usually what people mean when they express concerns about new CPU platforms and Linux. From what I've heard Ryzen runs Linux pretty well on desktops at least, so let's hope they can keep up the good work on laptops too.

rlonstein 9y ago
> From what I've heard Ryzen runs Linux pretty well on desktops Confirmed. I'm running one here-- 1700 (8c/16t), no-OC, stock cooler, X370 chipset and Samsung-based DDR4-3200 RAM-- on Ubuntu Xenial/Elementary and it's been rock solid and temps <50C doing desktop, development, and VM's.
- noir_lord 9y ago
  Same, 1700, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance at 2666, 4 weeks not a single problem and I've battered it, was transcoding 30,000 multiple page tiffs yesterday (don't ask..). The thing is a straight out monster for a 300 quid processor.
  - mkl 9y ago
    > transcoding 30,000 multiple page tiffs yesterday Um, I have to ask. The only thing I've used multipage TIFFs for is turning processed page scans into a PDF. But not nearly that scale. What was the context?
    - noir_lord 9y ago
      Exactly that for an enterprise web app that attached all the physical paperwork of an order to the digital record. Original dev just shoved all 30,000 in the webroot as multipage tiffs, average size 25Mb-30Mb. End users couldn't easily view attached scans (multipage tiff isn't that prevalent), converting to pdf with jpeg compression took the first set from 76.8Gb to 6Gb with far less traffic on the network and much easier handling (PDF is far better supported).

nailer 9y ago

> TBH I don't know much about incompatibilities CPUs can cause in Linux world. I remember one, a long time ago. This is from memory so it might not be 100% correct but the main details are true, and it's an interesting story: CPUs have identifiers on them. GenuineIntel, AuthenticAMD, etc, models, plus a number to indicate what generation. Pentiums were P1, P2, P3, etc. Intel released the Pentium 4 (one of their worst chip designs - the next one, Core, was based on Pentium 3 rather than Pentium 4). Which Linux saw as a P... FIFTEEN? Some jackass at Intel though 'IV' - ie roman numbers for four - was a cool thing to put as the CPU ID. So Linux saw 'Pentium 15' and freaked the fuck out while people confirmed that yes, Intel were actually stamping Pentium 4s as '15'.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
astrodust 9y ago
It's like the slipshod naming of an ISO volume.
TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
This confused me because I couldn't see how that ASCII would relate to the number. Turns out they chose 0xF for a different reason: http://linux.omnipotent.net/article.php?article_id=11457 http://linux.omnipotent.net/article.php?article_id=11457 It was to work around Windows NT!
- nailer 9y ago
  Thanks for the correction!