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> 1.3B brainwashed chinese, unlike the 300M free-thinking americans, none of whom buy into any sort of blind nationalism, amirite? Textbook whataboutism. The

> 1.3B brainwashed chinese, unlike the 300M free-thinking americans, none of whom buy into any sort of blind nationalism, amirite? Textbook whataboutism. The US isn't jailing people who talk about government missteps. China does jail people who talk about what happened in 1987. > Also, how does 'extreme nationalism' manifest in the expat community? Is it just talking passionately about your homeland? Or are these people actually taking physical action? I mean, 'extreme nationalism' is suggestive of more than just talking. I think he meant "patriotic". The most patriotic thing is to believe your country's form of government is better than others, or at least as good as others. So, I gather that comment was asking how the Chinese can support their government while it embraces capitalism. Personally, I don't hold the same feeling of incredulity. I think it all exists to support those currently in power and to prevent revolution. China had to adapt after Mao's policy failures, and they did so while keeping the same government in power.

Retra 9y ago
>The most patriotic thing is to believe your country's form of government is better than others, or at least as good as others. No, that'd potentially be a delusion of patriotism. Or nationalism. Patriotic would be to make your countries government better than others. Not merely believing it is.
- unityByFreedom 9y ago
  > No, that'd potentially be a delusion of patriotism. Or nationalism. Patriotic would be to make your countries government better than others. Not merely believing it is. I agree. The original argument of this thread was that without free press, doing things like making your country's government better is difficult, if not impossible. Therefore, it seems contradictory to be patriotic in a system that does not permit its citizens to improve upon that system.
  - vacri 9y ago
    The US has a free press. The current president is a governmental incompetant, and is using the office to enrich his family. The latest story is that even the major personalities in his own party are telling him publicly to shape up, admonishing him like a naughty schoolboy. What will actually change in government to prevent Trump 2.0? How will it be improved? That's the saddest thing about this whole debacle, is that nothing will be changed to get rid of a bad president. No mechanisms will be added. Everyone will breathe a sigh of relief when Trump leaves (in whatever way) and then pinky-swear that "we'll never do that again" without changing the mechanisms to actually make it so.
    - unityByFreedom 9y ago
      Trump is more constrained in the US than he would be as a leader elsewhere. There are a number of active lawsuits against him, most important probably being the emoluments ones. These take time to prepare and put in front of a judge. I don't know what better solution there is to wannabe dictators than a free press. Trump hates the press that doesn't agree with him. That should be a big sign that they are a thorn in his side. Life isn't perfect, nor is government. Sometimes you get a lemon and just need to deal with it with as much reason as you can muster.
      - vacri 9y ago
        > Trump is more constrained in the US than he would be as a leader elsewhere. O_o In a parliamentary system, when the leader loses the backing of their own party, they're no longer leader. And you don't have to wait four years for that to happen.
vacri 9y ago
> Textbook whataboutism. Nope. I was ridiculing the idea of categorising an entire nation as all being of the one mind. You need better textbooks. > The most patriotic thing is to believe your country's form of government is better than others, or at least as good as others. Nonsense. There are plenty of rabid American patriots who despise their government and want to change it, for example. And there are plenty of people who believe their government is the best form, but aren't particularly patriotic.

Retra 9y ago

>The most patriotic thing is to believe your country's form of government is better than others, or at least as good as others. No, that'd potentially be a delusion of patriotism. Or nationalism. Patriotic would be to make your countries government better than others. Not merely believing it is.

unityByFreedom 9y ago
> No, that'd potentially be a delusion of patriotism. Or nationalism. Patriotic would be to make your countries government better than others. Not merely believing it is. I agree. The original argument of this thread was that without free press, doing things like making your country's government better is difficult, if not impossible. Therefore, it seems contradictory to be patriotic in a system that does not permit its citizens to improve upon that system.
- vacri 9y ago
  The US has a free press. The current president is a governmental incompetant, and is using the office to enrich his family. The latest story is that even the major personalities in his own party are telling him publicly to shape up, admonishing him like a naughty schoolboy. What will actually change in government to prevent Trump 2.0? How will it be improved? That's the saddest thing about this whole debacle, is that nothing will be changed to get rid of a bad president. No mechanisms will be added. Everyone will breathe a sigh of relief when Trump leaves (in whatever way) and then pinky-swear that "we'll never do that again" without changing the mechanisms to actually make it so.
  - unityByFreedom 9y ago
    Trump is more constrained in the US than he would be as a leader elsewhere. There are a number of active lawsuits against him, most important probably being the emoluments ones. These take time to prepare and put in front of a judge. I don't know what better solution there is to wannabe dictators than a free press. Trump hates the press that doesn't agree with him. That should be a big sign that they are a thorn in his side. Life isn't perfect, nor is government. Sometimes you get a lemon and just need to deal with it with as much reason as you can muster.
    - vacri 9y ago
      > Trump is more constrained in the US than he would be as a leader elsewhere. O_o In a parliamentary system, when the leader loses the backing of their own party, they're no longer leader. And you don't have to wait four years for that to happen.

vacri 9y ago

> Textbook whataboutism. Nope. I was ridiculing the idea of categorising an entire nation as all being of the one mind. You need better textbooks. > The most patriotic thing is to believe your country's form of government is better than others, or at least as good as others. Nonsense. There are plenty of rabid American patriots who despise their government and want to change it, for example. And there are plenty of people who believe their government is the best form, but aren't particularly patriotic.