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it is far easier to promise service than it is to pay for it. in that regard making promises to the users of the service and workers is one thing, when it comes
by Shivetya 9y ago
it is far easier to promise service than it is to pay for it. in that regard making promises to the users of the service and workers is one thing, when it comes to paying the bill they always kick the can down the road.
NYC is the only American city which relies on heavy transit, just a little more than half the people working there use it. Only one other city crests ten percent and the after that its five percent and down.
It is the most expensive transportation option available to commuters at all stages when you calculate it per passenger mile, this is with subsidies included. Even building all those roads the automobile less that a fourth of the cost and most public transit will be superseded by autonomous cars and buses; the later which can adapt to changing needs that subway and heavy rail cannot.
Besides all the deferred maintenance and NYC is not alone in this, many lines are tens of billions in deferred maintenance, many lines face hundreds of millions with a few at a billion in underfunded pensions. Worse, subsidies have not increased ridership but instead employment. When most lines came about in the hay days of such it was nearly 60k riders per worker, that has fallen to less than 30k riders being served per worker.
the simple fact is that such transit is expensive to build and maintain and even with incredible subsidy they cannot get enough people to ride it though NYC gets close. NYC has the same problem the rest do, no one wants to pay anywhere near what the actual cost is per passenger mile to use it.
- volandovengo 9y ago6 million people ride it every day. Where are you getting your numbers from? Other countries build subways that are better and cheaper than they are in America.
- ams6110 9y ago> NYC is the only American city which relies on heavy transit Chicago absolutely does also. While the total passenger numbers are lower, mass transit is critical to Chicago's economy.
- Gibbon1 9y agoBART serves 300,000 riders a day. LA has been building out their commuter rail for two decades.
- julesqs 9y agothis is such a bad take. the point of public transit is not to get enough people to ride it so the system is profitable. do we expect roads to be profitable? they aren't, even if you say "the gas tax". and lol at heavy rail can't meet needs that cars can. A single subway line in New York can carry 60k people _in each direction_ at peak capacity. Autonomous cars are years away and will never achieve that efficiency just because of space.
- ascagnel_ 9y agoSubways are the most efficient way to move people in terms of square footage needed to move a person at speed, with heavy rail a close second, and walking third. You can fit 4-6 adults comfortably on a subway train with less space than those same people in a private automobile.
- DrScump 9y agoBut farebox recovery rate is a good metric for measuring how well a public transit system actually serves (and fails to serve would-be) passengers. Silicon Valley's VTA is among the worst, as its routes were chosen more for political purposes than optimal service.
- kafkaesq 9y agoOnly one other city crests ten percent and the after that its five percent and down. Easily available figures suggest you're... way off with that estimate.
- crucini 9y agoThis comment seems to have touched a nerve; it's voted way down. Can anyone rebut Shivetya's claims? 1. Subway is the most expensive transportation option per passenger mile, when you include subsidies. 2. Only one other US city (besides NYC) has 10% of workers riding the subway. (If I'm reading that right - is heavy transit distinct from "light rail" here?) If you can't rebut them, what good is voting them down?
- untog 9y agoI would turn that request on its head: can Shivetya produce any numbers to prove the claim about 10% of workers or the subway being the most expensive option? We're under no obligation to rebut a point that doesn't back itself up.
- TTPrograms 9y agoWhere do you get your numbers? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._cities_with_high_transit_ridership https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._cities_with_high_...