8 ms·

Covering roadways with glass solar panels is a terrible idea. Asphalt is durable and flexible. It's OK with getting bits of gravel, glass, or steel ground int

by adekok 9y ago

Covering roadways with glass solar panels is a terrible idea. Asphalt is durable and flexible. It's OK with getting bits of gravel, glass, or steel ground into it. Solar panels deal badly with such abuse. Putting solar panels flat on the ground loses 30% of their potential power. Even ignoring all of that, covering solar panels with cars is a terrible idea.

phreeza 9y ago
I think rihegher was maybe suggesting to put the solar panels above the road?
- rihegher 9y ago
  No i was thinking about http://www.wattwaybycolas.com/ http://www.wattwaybycolas.com/
  - pdelbarba 9y ago
    Oh god... Not another one of these... There is literally no reason to put solar panels on road surfaces. Go on google maps and look at the surface areas of roads (that are not in a buildings shadow most of the day) compared to rooftops or empty space.
    - rihegher 9y ago
      I see one reason,the fact that if you put solar panel in a place where the energy will get consume directly or within a short period then you don't need to take care of storage and transport for it.
      - pdelbarba 9y ago
        Then place them next to the roadway so they can operate efficiently? I don't understand the gimmick here. Again, it's a blender that plays MP3s, a carefully crafted web of buzzwords. Why does everyone want this so badly?
        rihegher 9y ago
        Again I think it is to reduce cost, you just need to add a layer on an area that is already taken care of (snow removed during winter, object and dust removed by cars and maintenance team).
        pdelbarba 9y ago
        Snow can be removed from rotating solar arrays by simply turning them sideways at sunrise, perfectly clearing them as the sun warms them up. If you're really enterprising you can turn them upside down at night. Can't say the same for the roads anywhere I've lived. Also, those dull grey cement highways used to be gleaming white when they were poured but alas, car tires are black and turn everything they touch black as well.
oddlyaromatic 9y ago
But you would put just any old solar panels on a road: See what is happening at http://www.solarroadways.com/ http://www.solarroadways.com/ - it addresses at least some of the issues you mention.
- robert_foss 9y ago
  The cost is just to high compared to commercial solar farms[1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obS6TUVSZds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obS6TUVSZds
  - maneesh 9y ago
    That's what they said about solar energy in general 10 years ago.
    - pdelbarba 9y ago
      This isn't a technology problem though. It's a stupid problem. Compare this to building a blender that plays MP3s. Why would you not just cheaply mount the solar panels next to the road? You can still do all the gimmicks with the LEDs and stuff without having to spend time and money making a high traction, durable road surface that doubles as a solar panel. There's nothing to be gained.
      - gravypod 9y ago
        You could also just mount the panels above the road and block the sun out of people's eyes while they drive. Less sun hitting people also means less people need to run the AC on the road. If you don't mount flat you can then do tracking too. Like you say. Mounting flat is probably the worst way to go from a utility and return standpoint.
    - gravypod 9y ago
      It's still true. Solar Power in most of the USA is too expensive unless you factor in government subsidies that has been added to accommodate externalities caused by burning fossil fuels. The technology currently is not cheaper to manufacture then coal/natural gas for most of the USA mainly due to the high investment cost and high maintenance cost of panels. These panels don't last forever and you can expect to replace them once every few (5-10) years. For commercial installs you also need to install rotors which have their own failures and maintenance costs associated with them. To have solar win against fossils you need an area that is sunny and very dry. You also need very very cheap land. Watt/square meter of land fossils will win in most places within the US.
nappy 9y ago
I'm surprised by how often (and by how many people!) someone suggests roads should be covered with solar panels... Asphalt is very different than glass...
agumonkey 9y ago
Glass is changing too, Corning has flexible and durable glass in lab (enough to make cute videos on youtube). I'm not for or against, just that coke bottle glass is not the only way
- bluGill 9y ago
  Flexible is actually a negative on the roadway though: it increases rolling resistance. You want something very hard that will not shatter. Cement works very well (asphalt is okay)
gorkonsine 9y ago
There's another way: put solar panels above the road. Especially for big, wide highways, there's a lot of area that's basically not used for anything except cars and trucks to drive over. Cover these with solar panels and now that land isn't just used for transportation, but also a lot of energy generation. On top of that, the cars underneath will be shaded from the Sun, which can be really useful in sunny climates, and would help people use less A/C in their cars, thus saving energy. The two problems I see with this idea are people complaining about the "view" (which is why it shouldn't be done on some really nice scenic part of a road, but in the middle of an ugly part of the city it should), and the possible problems with wind-loading, especially during storms, though surely this has been dealt with before, as there's a lot of places where they cover parking lots with elevated solar panels like this. For the view problem, they don't even have to cover the whole road with panels, they could just cover some lanes, put them in the median and extending over the inner lanes some, etc.
- jaclaz 9y ago
  >though surely this has been dealt with before, as there's a lot of places where they cover parking lots with elevated solar panels like this. As a side note, you have to consider how in parking lots it is rare to have cars and trucks passing under the panels at 70 Mph, and more generally accidents are usually very low speed. Besides the "normal" resistance to wind, if you want to build a sort of half-pipe covering a highway you need to consider the pressure induced from the inside by high-speed moving objects and the possibility to resist accidents (preventing an 18 wheeler from completely crash a - say - 100 m section of the half-pipe in case of an accident needs a rather sturdy structure). So, more or less it would be needed to build an artificial tunnel (concrete, rather thick) similar to a "snow shed": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_shed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_shed http://wsdotblog.blogspot.it/2014/03/the-i-90-snowshed-retires-after-64-years.html http://wsdotblog.blogspot.it/2014/03/the-i-90-snowshed-retir... The "lighter" metal/lattice ones are only used usually for railways.
  - SomeCollegeBro 9y ago
    > Besides the "normal" resistance to wind, if you want to build a sort of half-pipe covering a highway you need to consider the pressure induced from the inside by high-speed moving objects and the possibility to resist accidents (preventing an 18 wheeler from completely crash a - say - 100 m section of the half-pipe in case of an accident needs a rather sturdy structure). I mean, aren't these issues already basically solved? I frequently drive through miles-long tunnels under Boston at 70mph.

by adekok 9y ago

phreeza 9y ago

I think rihegher was maybe suggesting to put the solar panels above the road?

rihegher 9y ago
No i was thinking about http://www.wattwaybycolas.com/ http://www.wattwaybycolas.com/
- pdelbarba 9y ago
  Oh god... Not another one of these... There is literally no reason to put solar panels on road surfaces. Go on google maps and look at the surface areas of roads (that are not in a buildings shadow most of the day) compared to rooftops or empty space.
  - rihegher 9y ago
    I see one reason,the fact that if you put solar panel in a place where the energy will get consume directly or within a short period then you don't need to take care of storage and transport for it.
    - pdelbarba 9y ago
      Then place them next to the roadway so they can operate efficiently? I don't understand the gimmick here. Again, it's a blender that plays MP3s, a carefully crafted web of buzzwords. Why does everyone want this so badly?
      - rihegher 9y ago
        Again I think it is to reduce cost, you just need to add a layer on an area that is already taken care of (snow removed during winter, object and dust removed by cars and maintenance team).
        pdelbarba 9y ago
        Snow can be removed from rotating solar arrays by simply turning them sideways at sunrise, perfectly clearing them as the sun warms them up. If you're really enterprising you can turn them upside down at night. Can't say the same for the roads anywhere I've lived. Also, those dull grey cement highways used to be gleaming white when they were poured but alas, car tires are black and turn everything they touch black as well.

oddlyaromatic 9y ago

But you would put just any old solar panels on a road: See what is happening at http://www.solarroadways.com/ http://www.solarroadways.com/ - it addresses at least some of the issues you mention.

robert_foss 9y ago
The cost is just to high compared to commercial solar farms[1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obS6TUVSZds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obS6TUVSZds
- maneesh 9y ago
  That's what they said about solar energy in general 10 years ago.
  - pdelbarba 9y ago
    This isn't a technology problem though. It's a stupid problem. Compare this to building a blender that plays MP3s. Why would you not just cheaply mount the solar panels next to the road? You can still do all the gimmicks with the LEDs and stuff without having to spend time and money making a high traction, durable road surface that doubles as a solar panel. There's nothing to be gained.
    - gravypod 9y ago
      You could also just mount the panels above the road and block the sun out of people's eyes while they drive. Less sun hitting people also means less people need to run the AC on the road. If you don't mount flat you can then do tracking too. Like you say. Mounting flat is probably the worst way to go from a utility and return standpoint.
  - gravypod 9y ago
    It's still true. Solar Power in most of the USA is too expensive unless you factor in government subsidies that has been added to accommodate externalities caused by burning fossil fuels. The technology currently is not cheaper to manufacture then coal/natural gas for most of the USA mainly due to the high investment cost and high maintenance cost of panels. These panels don't last forever and you can expect to replace them once every few (5-10) years. For commercial installs you also need to install rotors which have their own failures and maintenance costs associated with them. To have solar win against fossils you need an area that is sunny and very dry. You also need very very cheap land. Watt/square meter of land fossils will win in most places within the US.

nappy 9y ago

I'm surprised by how often (and by how many people!) someone suggests roads should be covered with solar panels... Asphalt is very different than glass...

agumonkey 9y ago

Glass is changing too, Corning has flexible and durable glass in lab (enough to make cute videos on youtube). I'm not for or against, just that coke bottle glass is not the only way

bluGill 9y ago
Flexible is actually a negative on the roadway though: it increases rolling resistance. You want something very hard that will not shatter. Cement works very well (asphalt is okay)

gorkonsine 9y ago

There's another way: put solar panels above the road. Especially for big, wide highways, there's a lot of area that's basically not used for anything except cars and trucks to drive over. Cover these with solar panels and now that land isn't just used for transportation, but also a lot of energy generation. On top of that, the cars underneath will be shaded from the Sun, which can be really useful in sunny climates, and would help people use less A/C in their cars, thus saving energy. The two problems I see with this idea are people complaining about the "view" (which is why it shouldn't be done on some really nice scenic part of a road, but in the middle of an ugly part of the city it should), and the possible problems with wind-loading, especially during storms, though surely this has been dealt with before, as there's a lot of places where they cover parking lots with elevated solar panels like this. For the view problem, they don't even have to cover the whole road with panels, they could just cover some lanes, put them in the median and extending over the inner lanes some, etc.

jaclaz 9y ago
>though surely this has been dealt with before, as there's a lot of places where they cover parking lots with elevated solar panels like this. As a side note, you have to consider how in parking lots it is rare to have cars and trucks passing under the panels at 70 Mph, and more generally accidents are usually very low speed. Besides the "normal" resistance to wind, if you want to build a sort of half-pipe covering a highway you need to consider the pressure induced from the inside by high-speed moving objects and the possibility to resist accidents (preventing an 18 wheeler from completely crash a - say - 100 m section of the half-pipe in case of an accident needs a rather sturdy structure). So, more or less it would be needed to build an artificial tunnel (concrete, rather thick) similar to a "snow shed": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_shed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_shed http://wsdotblog.blogspot.it/2014/03/the-i-90-snowshed-retires-after-64-years.html http://wsdotblog.blogspot.it/2014/03/the-i-90-snowshed-retir... The "lighter" metal/lattice ones are only used usually for railways.
- SomeCollegeBro 9y ago
  > Besides the "normal" resistance to wind, if you want to build a sort of half-pipe covering a highway you need to consider the pressure induced from the inside by high-speed moving objects and the possibility to resist accidents (preventing an 18 wheeler from completely crash a - say - 100 m section of the half-pipe in case of an accident needs a rather sturdy structure). I mean, aren't these issues already basically solved? I frequently drive through miles-long tunnels under Boston at 70mph.