4 ms·

Peter Thiel only spent 12 days in NZ before being granted citizenship

41 points by r721 9y ago

r721 9y ago
Full report from the NZ government [pdf]: https://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/Files/Peter-Thiel-release-29-June-2017/$file/Peter-Thiel-release-29-June-2017.pdf https://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/Files/Peter-Thiel-rel...
gman83 9y ago
It says he gave a $1 million donation to the Christchurch earthquake relief fund. That'll probably do it yeah.
- coldtea 9y ago
  It takes way less than $1 million to get citizenship in most countries: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/countries-selling-citizenship/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/countries-selling-cit...
  - 0xbear 9y ago
    Including the US. You do have to spend quite a bit of time here to be granted citizenship, even if you invest.
philliphaydon 9y ago
As a Kiwi. The way they treat Kim Dotcom, and grant this guy citizen for little reason at all, makes me super disappointed in NZ. Just so sad we treat people differently based on politics that don't benefit NZ.
- mowenz 9y ago
  It's politics that benefits the 1%'ers in NZ. Same reason why street crime is a real problem in NZ when it shouldn't be because it goes relatively unenforced, while they run arguably one of the highest War on Drugs cost/GDP per capita in the world. Makes no sense for the dignity of the average NZ citizen.
- handedness 9y ago
  > Just so sad we treat people differently based on politics that don't benefit NZ. Surely someone there benefits from it, or it would have never happened.
mankash666 9y ago
However controversial Thiel may be, there's no arguing the benefits his citizenship grants NZ. If millions of $$ of investment and hundreds of jobs created don't qualify him for citizenship, there's a fallacy needing fixing. FYI - the US grants green cards to foreigners who invest $1M in new American businesses, NZ probably has an unwritten law that grants citizenship to those who stimulate it's economy
- m12k 9y ago
  If his monetary support helps to get a figure similar to Trump elected in NZ then he'd have done way more damage than good for the country. Whatever your stance on his politics, his election has done immense damage to the image of the US in the rest of the world. Edit: Wow, my first negative score comment. Could some of the people silently downvoting please specify whether they think my comment is factually incorrect or non-pertinent?
  - flukus 9y ago
    In NZ the conservative party makes the US democrats look like a far right party. It's hard to see a Trump emerging in a landscape like that.
    - censoredforlife 9y ago
      Untrue - just look at their punitive drug laws for e.g.. Aus and NZ are nanny states. Maybe Thiel's libertarian influence would be good for the country.
  - chillingeffect 9y ago
    I back you up. There's more than just a dollar figure to these subjective decisions. E.g. Seychelles islands grants immunity to misdemeanors for a $2 million fee. But how can a society function with the rule of law suspended for the wealthy?
    - godzillabrennus 9y ago
ponco 9y ago
I'll take any motherfucker's money if he given' it away - Geoff "Clay Davis" May
lukasben 9y ago
That's so f* up! Money can buy you everything. Even a citizenship. The NZ-gov should asked themselves why a close Trump supporter and VC is looking for a safe haven outside of the US. Will this person really add value to the society? Or will he build a massive mansion with a wall around it and an airport?
- org3432 9y ago
  Of course you can buy citizenship. Here's a price list if you are in the market: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/countries-selling-citizenship/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/countries-selling-cit...
  - Kurtz79 9y ago
    Latvian citizenship at 35.000€ with no residency requirements looks like a steal, considering that you would be allowed to live anywhere in the EU, if I'm not misinterpreting.
    - peteretep 9y ago
      You didn't finish your research. Process takes ten years and requires you to become fluent in Latvian.
- coldtea 9y ago
  >That's so f up! Money can buy you everything. Even a citizenship.* The latter "money for citizenship" has been going on in most countries (including the USA). https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/countries-selling-citizenship/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/countries-selling-cit...
  - lukasben 9y ago
    I'd just like to see more commitment than spending money. sports people representing a new country i.e.
- Bakary 9y ago
duncan_bayne 9y ago
That's ridiculous. How can it take that long for funds to clear?
smsm42 9y ago
So what? In Israel, you can become a citizen without spending even a whole day there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return I don't see why if NZ thinks having Thiel as a citizen would be good for them, they can't give him citizenship at any moment they'd like.
- tnzn 9y ago
  So because other countries do the same or worse, it justifies this ? I'm impressed.
  - smsm42 9y ago
    How is this worse? What is bad in it?
basicplus2 9y ago
1 rule for the rich quite a different bunch of rules for the rest of us
- vixen99 9y ago
  It depends what you bring to the table and that's as it should be.
- matt4077 9y ago
  The rule is: if you're willing to spend a million for membership, welcome to the club! ...and it's the same rule for everyone.
Steeeve 9y ago
He's probably one of their 5 richest citizens at this point. Why would they not seize the opportunity to increase their tax base?
- pavlov 9y ago
  Most likely he doesn't pay personal taxes to NZ. If he still retains his American citizenship, the IRS expects him to file there.
  - Steeeve 9y ago
    There's a wider view of things than just personal taxes.
  - matt4077 9y ago
    If he spends the plurality of days of a year in NZ, he will pay taxes there, and those are deducted from his US tax return (which usually means no US taxes, considering most countries' taxes are higher than the US'). Granted that's assuming he actually has any meaningful personal taxable income, which is somewhat doubtful.
peter_retief 9y ago
He is very wealthy and adds intellectual capital to any country he chooses to live, why is that controversial?
- cashmonkey85 9y ago
  New Zealand as a nation is very suspicious of success. 'tall poppy syndrome'
- detaro 9y ago
  He doesn't intent to live there, at least that's what he claimed in the application.
sytelus 9y ago
So why did Thiel chose NZ? USA allows dual citizenship to many other countries as well. NZ seem to have 33% tax rate so shouldn't that be off putting? Also, why take duel citizenship at all because US may then force you to relinquish USA citizenship.
- audeyisaacs 9y ago
  Safest place to be in case of nuclear war (due to low number of nearby potential targets, opposite hemisphere of most targets, good wind patterns to avoid fallout from potential targets). There's probably more playing into it. But being a relatively geographically far, politically stable country probably has a fair bit to do with it. I'm not sure if NZ is a net food importer/exporter, but IIRC AU can produce enough food to cover AU population so I wouldn't be surprised if NZ was similar.
creamypie 9y ago
It's funny a lot of people thinks it's not okay to grant citizenship because of Thiel's own opinion, or arguing whether Thiel will add value to the society. It's funnier when they themselves don't have the same net worth.

41 points by r721 9y ago

r721 9y ago

Full report from the NZ government [pdf]: https://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/Files/Peter-Thiel-release-29-June-2017/$file/Peter-Thiel-release-29-June-2017.pdf https://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/Files/Peter-Thiel-rel...

gman83 9y ago

It says he gave a $1 million donation to the Christchurch earthquake relief fund. That'll probably do it yeah.

coldtea 9y ago
It takes way less than $1 million to get citizenship in most countries: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/countries-selling-citizenship/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/countries-selling-cit...
- 0xbear 9y ago
  Including the US. You do have to spend quite a bit of time here to be granted citizenship, even if you invest.

philliphaydon 9y ago

As a Kiwi. The way they treat Kim Dotcom, and grant this guy citizen for little reason at all, makes me super disappointed in NZ. Just so sad we treat people differently based on politics that don't benefit NZ.

mowenz 9y ago
It's politics that benefits the 1%'ers in NZ. Same reason why street crime is a real problem in NZ when it shouldn't be because it goes relatively unenforced, while they run arguably one of the highest War on Drugs cost/GDP per capita in the world. Makes no sense for the dignity of the average NZ citizen.
handedness 9y ago
> Just so sad we treat people differently based on politics that don't benefit NZ. Surely someone there benefits from it, or it would have never happened.

mankash666 9y ago

However controversial Thiel may be, there's no arguing the benefits his citizenship grants NZ. If millions of $$ of investment and hundreds of jobs created don't qualify him for citizenship, there's a fallacy needing fixing. FYI - the US grants green cards to foreigners who invest $1M in new American businesses, NZ probably has an unwritten law that grants citizenship to those who stimulate it's economy

m12k 9y ago
If his monetary support helps to get a figure similar to Trump elected in NZ then he'd have done way more damage than good for the country. Whatever your stance on his politics, his election has done immense damage to the image of the US in the rest of the world. Edit: Wow, my first negative score comment. Could some of the people silently downvoting please specify whether they think my comment is factually incorrect or non-pertinent?
- flukus 9y ago
  In NZ the conservative party makes the US democrats look like a far right party. It's hard to see a Trump emerging in a landscape like that.
  - censoredforlife 9y ago
    Untrue - just look at their punitive drug laws for e.g.. Aus and NZ are nanny states. Maybe Thiel's libertarian influence would be good for the country.
- chillingeffect 9y ago
  I back you up. There's more than just a dollar figure to these subjective decisions. E.g. Seychelles islands grants immunity to misdemeanors for a $2 million fee. But how can a society function with the rule of law suspended for the wealthy?
  - godzillabrennus 9y ago

ponco 9y ago

I'll take any motherfucker's money if he given' it away - Geoff "Clay Davis" May

lukasben 9y ago

That's so f* up! Money can buy you everything. Even a citizenship. The NZ-gov should asked themselves why a close Trump supporter and VC is looking for a safe haven outside of the US. Will this person really add value to the society? Or will he build a massive mansion with a wall around it and an airport?

org3432 9y ago
Of course you can buy citizenship. Here's a price list if you are in the market: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/countries-selling-citizenship/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/countries-selling-cit...
- Kurtz79 9y ago
  Latvian citizenship at 35.000€ with no residency requirements looks like a steal, considering that you would be allowed to live anywhere in the EU, if I'm not misinterpreting.
  - peteretep 9y ago
    You didn't finish your research. Process takes ten years and requires you to become fluent in Latvian.
coldtea 9y ago
>That's so f up! Money can buy you everything. Even a citizenship.* The latter "money for citizenship" has been going on in most countries (including the USA). https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/countries-selling-citizenship/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/countries-selling-cit...
- lukasben 9y ago
  I'd just like to see more commitment than spending money. sports people representing a new country i.e.
Bakary 9y ago

duncan_bayne 9y ago

That's ridiculous. How can it take that long for funds to clear?

smsm42 9y ago

So what? In Israel, you can become a citizen without spending even a whole day there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return I don't see why if NZ thinks having Thiel as a citizen would be good for them, they can't give him citizenship at any moment they'd like.

tnzn 9y ago
So because other countries do the same or worse, it justifies this ? I'm impressed.
- smsm42 9y ago
  How is this worse? What is bad in it?

basicplus2 9y ago

1 rule for the rich quite a different bunch of rules for the rest of us

vixen99 9y ago
It depends what you bring to the table and that's as it should be.
matt4077 9y ago
The rule is: if you're willing to spend a million for membership, welcome to the club! ...and it's the same rule for everyone.

Steeeve 9y ago

He's probably one of their 5 richest citizens at this point. Why would they not seize the opportunity to increase their tax base?

pavlov 9y ago
Most likely he doesn't pay personal taxes to NZ. If he still retains his American citizenship, the IRS expects him to file there.
- Steeeve 9y ago
  There's a wider view of things than just personal taxes.
- matt4077 9y ago
  If he spends the plurality of days of a year in NZ, he will pay taxes there, and those are deducted from his US tax return (which usually means no US taxes, considering most countries' taxes are higher than the US'). Granted that's assuming he actually has any meaningful personal taxable income, which is somewhat doubtful.

peter_retief 9y ago

He is very wealthy and adds intellectual capital to any country he chooses to live, why is that controversial?

cashmonkey85 9y ago
New Zealand as a nation is very suspicious of success. 'tall poppy syndrome'
detaro 9y ago
He doesn't intent to live there, at least that's what he claimed in the application.

sytelus 9y ago

So why did Thiel chose NZ? USA allows dual citizenship to many other countries as well. NZ seem to have 33% tax rate so shouldn't that be off putting? Also, why take duel citizenship at all because US may then force you to relinquish USA citizenship.

audeyisaacs 9y ago
Safest place to be in case of nuclear war (due to low number of nearby potential targets, opposite hemisphere of most targets, good wind patterns to avoid fallout from potential targets). There's probably more playing into it. But being a relatively geographically far, politically stable country probably has a fair bit to do with it. I'm not sure if NZ is a net food importer/exporter, but IIRC AU can produce enough food to cover AU population so I wouldn't be surprised if NZ was similar.

creamypie 9y ago

It's funny a lot of people thinks it's not okay to grant citizenship because of Thiel's own opinion, or arguing whether Thiel will add value to the society. It's funnier when they themselves don't have the same net worth.