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Do you want more messaging apps? This is how you get more messaging apps. The main appeal for Googlers is that participating in Area 120 gets you out of doing

Do you want more messaging apps? This is how you get more messaging apps. The main appeal for Googlers is that participating in Area 120 gets you out of doing Perf for an entire cycle. That's actually pretty huge. When this was first unveiled internally I don't recall anyone saying this was more attractive than just leaving and creating your own startup. It never even crossed my mind when I decided to leave and start a new project, I can't understand what the upside would be.

WWKong 9y ago
"...What the upside would be" A very low risk great shot at potentially leading a Google product and all the associated upsides?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- lwansbrough 9y ago
  Except, you know, owning it.
chrisco255 9y ago
What is "doing Perf" and how long is a cycle?
- jacoblambda 9y ago
  I imagine it means performance reviews
- kajecounterhack 9y ago
  Performance Review. A cycle is 6 months.
ianai 9y ago
im thinking they tend toward projects that aren't big enough to be their own thing. Ie a new feature to a project they're already working on internally. Or as a way to work on a project in another part of the company from your immediate. Both could be ways to move up/over within the company.
sverhagen 9y ago
Assuming you meant "Perf[ormance reviews]", like a sibling comment suggested, don't you think Google can figure out how to assess someone, even if the environment is more-experimental than just plowing through well-defined backlog? They already have Research (capital R) teams for which they must have addressed this in some way, and those are probably even much less causal in their contribution to output relationship (which is what I presume the difficulty in measuring performance amounts to)?
- kajecounterhack 9y ago
  1. Research teams at Google are unlike most other companies. You're expected to write code and deliver results. 2. It's not inability to measure Area 120'ers. Not putting participants through perf is ostensibly because they want to give a true entrepreneury environment where you are only measured by your product's success. Traditional performance review is...more complicated, to say the least.
- jboggan 9y ago
  The "Perf" process currently leads to some perverse incentives. I think part of the removal of Perf is to avoid those incentives for the more entrepreneurial efforts while also not penalizing Googlers that choose to work on those projects. Can't have good folks getting "Needs Improvement" or even "Meets Expectations" because their project didn't pan out.
dotancohen 9y ago
When you leave Google to start your own startup: 1. In addition to a very uncertain economic future in the short term, you also have high chance of failure in the long term. 2. Google looses you as an employee. It seems that A120 addresses both these issues.
- jboggan 9y ago
  Imagine there's a new accelerator called ZD. You have a new product idea, a prototype and a team. Instead of investing money for a few percent of the company, helping to refine your product market fit, and introducing you to investors they instead take 100% ownership, give you a comfortable salary, and keep you bunkered away from talking to people on the outside very much. Would you rather personally take your idea to YC or ZD? Which of the two do you think would be more successful in the long run? Which environment will actually motivate the "founders" and stimulate them to create something great and useful? Area 120 is awkwardly addressing the fact that 20% time is dying and isn't working as the R&D model that once drove so much innovation at Google. The name itself is an in-joke about the tendency for 20% time to only come after you've done the first 100%.
btian 9y ago
Some people don't have green card / US citizenship.
- stephenr 9y ago
  And of course everyone knows the Internet, computers and even the concept of businesses all cease to exist the moment you step onto the air-bridge at LAX.
- jboggan 9y ago
  This is a really good point against leaving Google to create a startup. At the same time, people were frustrated that Area 120 was only open to folks in Mountain View. Maybe that changed for future classes but I know it was an issue with the first one.
  - btian 9y ago
    That has changed.

WWKong 9y ago

"...What the upside would be" A very low risk great shot at potentially leading a Google product and all the associated upsides?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
lwansbrough 9y ago
Except, you know, owning it.

chrisco255 9y ago

What is "doing Perf" and how long is a cycle?

jacoblambda 9y ago
I imagine it means performance reviews
kajecounterhack 9y ago
Performance Review. A cycle is 6 months.

ianai 9y ago

im thinking they tend toward projects that aren't big enough to be their own thing. Ie a new feature to a project they're already working on internally. Or as a way to work on a project in another part of the company from your immediate. Both could be ways to move up/over within the company.

sverhagen 9y ago

Assuming you meant "Perf[ormance reviews]", like a sibling comment suggested, don't you think Google can figure out how to assess someone, even if the environment is more-experimental than just plowing through well-defined backlog? They already have Research (capital R) teams for which they must have addressed this in some way, and those are probably even much less causal in their contribution to output relationship (which is what I presume the difficulty in measuring performance amounts to)?

kajecounterhack 9y ago
1. Research teams at Google are unlike most other companies. You're expected to write code and deliver results. 2. It's not inability to measure Area 120'ers. Not putting participants through perf is ostensibly because they want to give a true entrepreneury environment where you are only measured by your product's success. Traditional performance review is...more complicated, to say the least.
jboggan 9y ago
The "Perf" process currently leads to some perverse incentives. I think part of the removal of Perf is to avoid those incentives for the more entrepreneurial efforts while also not penalizing Googlers that choose to work on those projects. Can't have good folks getting "Needs Improvement" or even "Meets Expectations" because their project didn't pan out.

dotancohen 9y ago

When you leave Google to start your own startup: 1. In addition to a very uncertain economic future in the short term, you also have high chance of failure in the long term. 2. Google looses you as an employee. It seems that A120 addresses both these issues.

jboggan 9y ago
Imagine there's a new accelerator called ZD. You have a new product idea, a prototype and a team. Instead of investing money for a few percent of the company, helping to refine your product market fit, and introducing you to investors they instead take 100% ownership, give you a comfortable salary, and keep you bunkered away from talking to people on the outside very much. Would you rather personally take your idea to YC or ZD? Which of the two do you think would be more successful in the long run? Which environment will actually motivate the "founders" and stimulate them to create something great and useful? Area 120 is awkwardly addressing the fact that 20% time is dying and isn't working as the R&D model that once drove so much innovation at Google. The name itself is an in-joke about the tendency for 20% time to only come after you've done the first 100%.

btian 9y ago

Some people don't have green card / US citizenship.

stephenr 9y ago
And of course everyone knows the Internet, computers and even the concept of businesses all cease to exist the moment you step onto the air-bridge at LAX.
jboggan 9y ago
This is a really good point against leaving Google to create a startup. At the same time, people were frustrated that Area 120 was only open to folks in Mountain View. Maybe that changed for future classes but I know it was an issue with the first one.
- btian 9y ago
  That has changed.