4 ms·

I am genuinely confused why you think a large portion -- if not a commanding majority -- of women in tech would not self-identify with "geek feminism". Natural

by jlebar 9y ago

I am genuinely confused why you think a large portion -- if not a commanding majority -- of women in tech would not self-identify with "geek feminism". Naturally that website doesn't (can't) speak for all women in tech, but I never claimed that it did, and anyway that's an unreasonable standard to hold any website to. Let me make a more general point: Every time women and minorities come up on HN, I am so sad to see discussions like this. As much as we might not want to admit it, our community is toxic. This is why we need feminism, Black Lives Matter, and so on. This is why the Rust community needs to engage with women and other underrepresented groups. If you doubted that there is a problem, just read the comments here. I can only hope people will either learn how to be nice people, or decide to leave tech and be mean somewhere else. Being nice to people is actually kind of fun. You should try it.

slang800 9y ago
> I am genuinely confused why you think a large portion -- if not a commanding majority -- of women in tech would not self-identify with "geek feminism" According to YouGov, 23% of women identify as feminist, 5% are anti-feminist, and the rest are neither. Your opinion is probably skewed due to overrepresentation of feminists in media. http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/tabs_gender_0411122013.pdf http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/tabs_gender_0411122013.... > I can only hope people will either learn how to be nice people, or decide to leave tech and be mean somewhere else Nice people don't try to force identity politics down everyone's throats. Your comments are the ones that are "toxic".
- jlebar 9y ago
  Do you think 23% of women is not a "large portion"? Let's imagine that only 23% of women care about being called "she" instead of "he". Do you think it's "forcing identity politics down everyone's throats" for them to ask to be referred to by their preferred pronoun? Because that's what we were discussing here. The anger this has engendered in you and others here is truly stunning.
galangalalgol 9y ago
I am a "geek" male in the industry. My wife worked in the industry and others in non technical roles and is not herself a geek. Her education was in sociology so I asked her about what makes tech more toxic to women. Her answer surprised me. She said that it wasn't. That the other fields she worked in were the same. The difference was two fold. Male geeks interact differently with women and a slight that might seem rakish at first glace from a lawyer is immediately perceived for what it is coming from a geek. But the more important half by far, that I never thought of in my self accusation, is that female geeks also interact differently from other females. A slight that my wife would shrug off, just making a mental note about the guy, her geek female coworkers were eaten up by. It hurt them deeply. In short I don't think our community is more toxic than others, it is just that it is more evident in ours. Anyone can be offended by anything so two approaches are needed. Train against what is most commonly offensive, but also train on how to be offended less easily by people who are being offensive.

by jlebar 9y ago

slang800 9y ago

> I am genuinely confused why you think a large portion -- if not a commanding majority -- of women in tech would not self-identify with "geek feminism" According to YouGov, 23% of women identify as feminist, 5% are anti-feminist, and the rest are neither. Your opinion is probably skewed due to overrepresentation of feminists in media. http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/tabs_gender_0411122013.pdf http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/tabs_gender_0411122013.... > I can only hope people will either learn how to be nice people, or decide to leave tech and be mean somewhere else Nice people don't try to force identity politics down everyone's throats. Your comments are the ones that are "toxic".

jlebar 9y ago
Do you think 23% of women is not a "large portion"? Let's imagine that only 23% of women care about being called "she" instead of "he". Do you think it's "forcing identity politics down everyone's throats" for them to ask to be referred to by their preferred pronoun? Because that's what we were discussing here. The anger this has engendered in you and others here is truly stunning.

galangalalgol 9y ago

I am a "geek" male in the industry. My wife worked in the industry and others in non technical roles and is not herself a geek. Her education was in sociology so I asked her about what makes tech more toxic to women. Her answer surprised me. She said that it wasn't. That the other fields she worked in were the same. The difference was two fold. Male geeks interact differently with women and a slight that might seem rakish at first glace from a lawyer is immediately perceived for what it is coming from a geek. But the more important half by far, that I never thought of in my self accusation, is that female geeks also interact differently from other females. A slight that my wife would shrug off, just making a mental note about the guy, her geek female coworkers were eaten up by. It hurt them deeply. In short I don't think our community is more toxic than others, it is just that it is more evident in ours. Anyone can be offended by anything so two approaches are needed. Train against what is most commonly offensive, but also train on how to be offended less easily by people who are being offensive.