3 ms·

All you'd have to do is get a large list of people in minorities who did work similar to each of the jobs you'd need to do. At least a handful for each one but

All you'd have to do is get a large list of people in minorities who did work similar to each of the jobs you'd need to do. At least a handful for each one but preferably more if you had time. Then, send them detailed offers with follow-up interviews to see if they could perform. You'd have more of them on your team afterward. Did you all do that? And do you have any data on it so interested outsiders can see what caused the failures and how to prevent that in the future?

steveklabnik 9y ago
> All you'd have to do Again, there's no silver bullet here :) The approach we're taking here is basically the opposite of what you're advocating; I am not aware of any open source projects that email people asking them to contribute. I would find it extremely odd if someone did that to me. Putting out a call for contributors, on the other hand, is pretty usual.
- nickpsecurity 9y ago
  "The approach we're taking here is basically the opposite of what you're advocating; I am not aware of any open source projects that email people asking them to contribute." I'm not saying it common or anything haha. I'm just offering sending messages to people about a project that fits their expertise as a way to boost number of people that know about it and might contribute. This is with assumption that whatever qualified minorities candidates aren't seeing the opportunity or nobody has nudged them to act on it. If for other reasons, this might have no effect. Of course, one must balance against overdoing it or we get posts about "Rust zealots" blasting messages at everyone. Very selective based on talent with personalized messages with no commitment required. I've gotten a few people interested in experimenting with approaches to automated testing and coding in SPARK Ada just sending occasional emails or messages. Although, most come to me after I post in different places with different types of people/projects that might find them useful. Also, I speculate maybe on web forum side looking for forums with higher percentage of minority programmers or just experimenters/makers where you do your normal thing sharing interesting posts about Rust or its ecosystem. Just some extra brainstorming. I agree there's no silver bullet. It will require lots of experimentation, measurement, listening, and time above all.
  - steveklabnik 9y ago
    Totally! I appreciate the brainstorming.
carols10cents 9y ago
Based on your use of the words jobs, offers, interviews, etc it sounds like you're assuming that being on a Rust team is a paid job. This is not the case. Mozilla indeed employs a lot of the people on the teams, but I have my own company, for example. I do not get paid because of my membership on the teams. And there are people who work on Rust at Mozilla who are not on the teams; these are a disjoint set.
- nickpsecurity 9y ago
  That's indeed news to me. The press releases had me assuming otherwise. I appreciate you and Steve telling me so I can get better accuracy in future conversations. What's the split of paid people to volunteers on the page I linked? Especially in compiler, language, library, and community teams?
  - steveklabnik 9y ago
    Out of almost 60 distinct people, roughly 15 are employed by Mozilla by my quick count. It gets a bit fuzzy because some people have done things like been an intern, did a few months on contract, or something else, but that's the current count.
    - nickpsecurity 9y ago
      Well, it's cool you have so many volunteers. Also, the lack of diversity isn't as bad as it initially appeared if we're including volunteers. There could be bias but donating time/money for good things must be a good thing by default. :) The critiques would only still apply on hiring level if the 15 were mostly white males in circumstances where more minorities could've been hired. Any suggestions or brainstorming would also still apply since they address the supply or acceptance side rather than just Rust specifically. It's just one instance where the techniques can benefit.

steveklabnik 9y ago

> All you'd have to do Again, there's no silver bullet here :) The approach we're taking here is basically the opposite of what you're advocating; I am not aware of any open source projects that email people asking them to contribute. I would find it extremely odd if someone did that to me. Putting out a call for contributors, on the other hand, is pretty usual.

nickpsecurity 9y ago
"The approach we're taking here is basically the opposite of what you're advocating; I am not aware of any open source projects that email people asking them to contribute." I'm not saying it common or anything haha. I'm just offering sending messages to people about a project that fits their expertise as a way to boost number of people that know about it and might contribute. This is with assumption that whatever qualified minorities candidates aren't seeing the opportunity or nobody has nudged them to act on it. If for other reasons, this might have no effect. Of course, one must balance against overdoing it or we get posts about "Rust zealots" blasting messages at everyone. Very selective based on talent with personalized messages with no commitment required. I've gotten a few people interested in experimenting with approaches to automated testing and coding in SPARK Ada just sending occasional emails or messages. Although, most come to me after I post in different places with different types of people/projects that might find them useful. Also, I speculate maybe on web forum side looking for forums with higher percentage of minority programmers or just experimenters/makers where you do your normal thing sharing interesting posts about Rust or its ecosystem. Just some extra brainstorming. I agree there's no silver bullet. It will require lots of experimentation, measurement, listening, and time above all.
- steveklabnik 9y ago
  Totally! I appreciate the brainstorming.

carols10cents 9y ago

Based on your use of the words jobs, offers, interviews, etc it sounds like you're assuming that being on a Rust team is a paid job. This is not the case. Mozilla indeed employs a lot of the people on the teams, but I have my own company, for example. I do not get paid because of my membership on the teams. And there are people who work on Rust at Mozilla who are not on the teams; these are a disjoint set.

nickpsecurity 9y ago
That's indeed news to me. The press releases had me assuming otherwise. I appreciate you and Steve telling me so I can get better accuracy in future conversations. What's the split of paid people to volunteers on the page I linked? Especially in compiler, language, library, and community teams?
- steveklabnik 9y ago
  Out of almost 60 distinct people, roughly 15 are employed by Mozilla by my quick count. It gets a bit fuzzy because some people have done things like been an intern, did a few months on contract, or something else, but that's the current count.
  - nickpsecurity 9y ago
    Well, it's cool you have so many volunteers. Also, the lack of diversity isn't as bad as it initially appeared if we're including volunteers. There could be bias but donating time/money for good things must be a good thing by default. :) The critiques would only still apply on hiring level if the 15 were mostly white males in circumstances where more minorities could've been hired. Any suggestions or brainstorming would also still apply since they address the supply or acceptance side rather than just Rust specifically. It's just one instance where the techniques can benefit.