6 ms·

Only if the contract says so. And just because the contract says so doesn't mean it's morally correct, only that they managed to get you to sign it.

matthewmacleod 9y ago
I'm pretty sure that's not true – in the UK at least, any work created during a course of employment belongs to the employer. There's nothing in the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act that explicitly defines what 'course of employment' means but a court would certainly consider it valid were the works produced on company time using company equipment.
- wtallis 9y ago
  If you offer to automate something and the employer says "no, don't mess with our system; it works for us", then automating it behind their backs might not be a work for hire even though it's clearly work-related. This even sounds like the author was being treated more like an independent contractor than an employee.
- jpindar 9y ago
  That's not true in the US either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_for_hire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_for_hire
  - s73ver 9y ago
    Software is specifically exempted from that.
- qb45 9y ago
  Yes, they may have rights to this script. But he probably doesn't owe them any documentation and certainly not training or maintenance. Depending on situation, he may still be able to get something from it and probably he should if they didn't want him to automate that and didn't pay him a real programmer's salary.
RobertoG 9y ago
I don't know what the correct morality is here, but I know that a basic principle of morality is to use the same yardstick for everybody. Companies, specially big consulting companies do something similar to their clients all the time when inflating projects and time, but, somehow, that just sound like business as usual.
- kbutler 9y ago
  Or are they just including indirect costs? The secretary doesn't work on the project, but she has to be paid. The consulting company also must allow for time/cost overruns. All these costs have to come out of the estimated costs, so including them is not only ethical, it is necessary to remain a viable business.
- emodendroket 9y ago
  Practically speaking, how is he going to turn it around and sell it if he has no legal right to do so?
emodendroket 9y ago
OK, but if you have a job as a software developer you almost certainly signed such an agreement.
rhino369 9y ago
The default rule for what happens w/o a contract is different for each state. But many states say that a work, created during employment, that is within the scope of your work and on company time is company property. Note, this doesn't apply to contractors. I can't think of a state where a program you create to automate your job, that you wrote on company time, wouldn't be the companies property. Of course an employment contract can easily modify the general rule. For contractors the rule is the opposite. They retain IP by default.

matthewmacleod 9y ago

I'm pretty sure that's not true – in the UK at least, any work created during a course of employment belongs to the employer. There's nothing in the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act that explicitly defines what 'course of employment' means but a court would certainly consider it valid were the works produced on company time using company equipment.

wtallis 9y ago
If you offer to automate something and the employer says "no, don't mess with our system; it works for us", then automating it behind their backs might not be a work for hire even though it's clearly work-related. This even sounds like the author was being treated more like an independent contractor than an employee.
jpindar 9y ago
That's not true in the US either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_for_hire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_for_hire
- s73ver 9y ago
  Software is specifically exempted from that.
qb45 9y ago
Yes, they may have rights to this script. But he probably doesn't owe them any documentation and certainly not training or maintenance. Depending on situation, he may still be able to get something from it and probably he should if they didn't want him to automate that and didn't pay him a real programmer's salary.

RobertoG 9y ago

I don't know what the correct morality is here, but I know that a basic principle of morality is to use the same yardstick for everybody. Companies, specially big consulting companies do something similar to their clients all the time when inflating projects and time, but, somehow, that just sound like business as usual.

kbutler 9y ago
Or are they just including indirect costs? The secretary doesn't work on the project, but she has to be paid. The consulting company also must allow for time/cost overruns. All these costs have to come out of the estimated costs, so including them is not only ethical, it is necessary to remain a viable business.
emodendroket 9y ago
Practically speaking, how is he going to turn it around and sell it if he has no legal right to do so?

emodendroket 9y ago

OK, but if you have a job as a software developer you almost certainly signed such an agreement.

rhino369 9y ago

The default rule for what happens w/o a contract is different for each state. But many states say that a work, created during employment, that is within the scope of your work and on company time is company property. Note, this doesn't apply to contractors. I can't think of a state where a program you create to automate your job, that you wrote on company time, wouldn't be the companies property. Of course an employment contract can easily modify the general rule. For contractors the rule is the opposite. They retain IP by default.