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> The market didn't think so. "The market" is not a helpful model for this interaction. My boss paid me the lowest legal wage, and I didn't ask for any more. I

> The market didn't think so. "The market" is not a helpful model for this interaction. My boss paid me the lowest legal wage, and I didn't ask for any more. Imagine a driver pointing to a bridge on a map when in reality the bridge is gone. The map is helpful in many situations, but it will not help in getting over that bridge. > you have to push for it, since the market can't read your mind argue on your behalf. OK. What if I can't? In my case, it was anxiety, which affects at least 18% of the US population. In other cases, it's the risk of alienating a contact or going too long between jobs. If I can't argue, then by your own argument the market wage-setting mechanism must necessarily fail. At the lowest pay levels, I could become a burden to the public despite being employed, which doesn't do anyone any good. > People who can't/don't/won't negotiate expect the same income from people who do negotiate Obviously, a lack of salary negotiation decreases one's salary. Minimum wage laws don't repeal that fact, but they set a limit on how low salaries can go, reducing the number of charity cases among the working poor. It doesn't give bad negotiators the same income as effective negotiators except at the very bottom of the labor market.

daenz 9y ago
> My boss paid me the lowest legal wage, and I didn't ask for any more. > What if I can't? In my case, it was anxiety I'm sorry you have anxiety, but if you don't even try to participate in the negotiation process, you can't expect a lot of sympathy for you when you complain that you're not paid what you think you're worth. Negotiating inherently makes most people anxious (myself included), but you learn to do it because it's a invaluable skillset to furthering all aspects of your life. Frankly, I can't think of a single line of work that doesn't benefit from good negotiation skills. I hope you don't take this as confrontational.
- comicjk 9y ago
  You're asking people with broken legs to walk it off. Clinical anxiety is not easy to treat, and minimum-wage workers don't generally have the time or resources to go about it. In non-psychological issues, the risk of going an extra few months without a job can be hard for minimum-wage workers. They might not be in a position to accept the tail risk even if the average outcome of negotiating the extra couple of dollars would leave them better off. I don't mean to ask sympathy for myself; I'm doing fine now, and I think you're right that I could use some negotiation training (I do read self-help books about it from time to time). I bring up myself just to make clear that this kind of issue can affect anyone. For people stuck in that situation (especially with kids), I feel a great deal of sympathy, and I'm interested in anything (minimum wage, training, Earned Income Tax Credit) which can help them.

daenz 9y ago

> My boss paid me the lowest legal wage, and I didn't ask for any more. > What if I can't? In my case, it was anxiety I'm sorry you have anxiety, but if you don't even try to participate in the negotiation process, you can't expect a lot of sympathy for you when you complain that you're not paid what you think you're worth. Negotiating inherently makes most people anxious (myself included), but you learn to do it because it's a invaluable skillset to furthering all aspects of your life. Frankly, I can't think of a single line of work that doesn't benefit from good negotiation skills. I hope you don't take this as confrontational.

comicjk 9y ago
You're asking people with broken legs to walk it off. Clinical anxiety is not easy to treat, and minimum-wage workers don't generally have the time or resources to go about it. In non-psychological issues, the risk of going an extra few months without a job can be hard for minimum-wage workers. They might not be in a position to accept the tail risk even if the average outcome of negotiating the extra couple of dollars would leave them better off. I don't mean to ask sympathy for myself; I'm doing fine now, and I think you're right that I could use some negotiation training (I do read self-help books about it from time to time). I bring up myself just to make clear that this kind of issue can affect anyone. For people stuck in that situation (especially with kids), I feel a great deal of sympathy, and I'm interested in anything (minimum wage, training, Earned Income Tax Credit) which can help them.