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I hate stuff like this. I don't want to be forced to "take my eyes off the screen" when I'm in the middle of fixing something difficult or important. For fuck'

I hate stuff like this. I don't want to be forced to "take my eyes off the screen" when I'm in the middle of fixing something difficult or important. For fuck's sake. Not only is it patronizing and paternalistic, it defeats the whole purpose of coming to work in the first place, which, for me, is to get shit done. I'm perfectly capable of knowing and understanding my own limits, and I have my own techniques to "sharpen the saw," so to speak. I might take a power nap, or a walk or quick jog outside. As an introvert, being around people socially at work like this drains the hell out of me. Sure, I can put on a happy face for the meeting, but it'll also take me an extra hour or two to recharge afterwards. Which is purely wasted time. How is it "strengthening the team" when any introvert there is surely wishing they could just do their job without these sorts of social interruptions? These extrovert-centric assumptions drive me crazy, including at my current job. Just because this sort of social extroversion makes YOU feel more connected, please don't assume that everyone else feels the same way. I feel FAR more connected to the team quietly working on difficult projects without interruption. If I wanted to socialize I'd do it on my own time and in my own way.

mmmpop 9y ago
Strongly agree with this. I showed this thread to my coworkers and they sneered at the assumption that our lives are to be built around our jobs and the people at them. Don't get me wrong, we really enjoy each other and our jobs, but if our boss decided one day this was the new norm, we'd quit so fast our own necks would break running for the door...
- cr0sh 9y ago
  > I showed this thread to my coworkers and they sneered at the assumption that our lives are to be built around our jobs and the people at them. In your and your coworker's situation, and the parent's situation - this may be the case - but I'd argue that it is the exception for most people and most job situations. It is one of the driving arguments (stated or not) behind the resistance to the concept of "universal basic income" (UBI) and instead the rallying for "more jobs" (speaking from the perspective of the USA here, I don't really know what the situation is like elsewhere - I have feelings that it varies depending on the culture). I believe that most people do build their lives around their work, and the people at them. They work with these people for a long part of their weekdays; then they go home usually to a family (children, spouse, pets) and may not have much interaction with other people who are friends (maybe a phone chat occasionally - and perhaps the rare get together). They look at their coworkers as their peer and friend group. Unfortunately, that also brings all the baggage and strife with it such social situations can lead to. It is likely what fosters and aggravates the petty office politics and group dynamics - perhaps part of what leads to worse situations. This all can seem odd to people who are introverts and don't build their lives around their work environment, but it doesn't seem to be the norm. That's all my opinion, and I could very well be wrong, its just based on what I have seen and experienced over my decades of employment. For what it's worth, I'm fairly introverted myself, but I also try to understand my coworkers (specifically and in the general sense) and their views on work/life, which is why I have come to these conclusions (right or wrong as the case may be, I suppose).
  - mmmpop 9y ago
    >> I'd argue that it is the exception for most people and most job situations. It probably is and I feel fortunate that I found a job that allows me to be what I consider human. I feel like the alternate situations that "force a family" upon an employee to be somewhat cruel, but I'm a fairly anti-social person for what it is worth. Maybe I mean "nonsocial"? I will leave that as an exercise for the reader. > I believe that most people do build their lives around their work, and the people at them. They work with these people for a long part of their weekdays; then they go home usually to a family (children, spouse, pets) and may not have much interaction with other people who are friends (maybe a phone chat occasionally - and perhaps the rare get together). They look at their coworkers as their peer and friend group. Oh yeah, the grind! I dropped out of college when I started to sense this was where my life was headed and if my former friend group is any indicator, I dodged the figurative bullet. > That's all my opinion, and I could very well be wrong, its just based on what I have seen and experienced over my decades of employment. You're totally right, I just reject it as the end-all-be-all and won't settle for such an outcome. Thanks for your point of view.
kayoone 9y ago
I don't know, i would see myself as fairly introverted but i like the team i am working with and having lunch with them together is usually fun. There is no force though, i don't have to do it. Some of my coworkers also became friends, so i hardly see it as "team building" but i guess it benefits the team too. You seem pretty isolated from your team, which probably makes you leave earlier than people who are well connected within the team, so it's clear why Founders encourage this. I worked remotely for a couple of years and now realized how much more i enjoy work when i have other developers around, otherwise i would lead a pretty lonely live.
- Danihan 9y ago
  >You seem pretty isolated from your team, which probably makes you leave earlier than people I become obsessed and enthralled with the work itself, sometimes to the point of wanting to work 12-16 hour days to solve deeper problems that are bothersome. Working short days has never been an issue for me. This is exactly what I mean by projection. You would want to leave early if you felt isolated. But I enjoy it and want to stay longer. >I worked remotely for a couple of years and now realized how much more i enjoy work when i have other developers around, otherwise i would lead a pretty lonely live. This is not "fairly introverted." What you are describing is a textbook example of "fairly extroverted." You enjoy working around others and begin to feel lonely otherwise. I generally don't, in either case.
  - kayoone 9y ago
    By leaving earlier i meant the job as a whole, because on average people that tend to isolate themselves from the team are less invested in the vision of the product and the team, which is why founders usually do these crap events (which i hate too). Not saying this is the case for you, it's just what i've seen in the past. I am definitely not extroverted, i get nervous before meetings and team building events and they drain a lot of my energy and concentration during the day. It's just when working remotely for years, sometimes i didn't talk to anyone for days and that can get unhealthy after some time. I also just enjoy discussing technical issues with coworkers. Not saying you are doing it wrong, god forbid. In my early thirties now I definitely would not work 12-16hour days anymore as an employee without being a shareholder though.
gk1 9y ago
> "...any introvert there is surely wishing..." The founder whose idea this was is an introvert, and so are many others on the team, all of whom chose to work there knowing about this. It's not very useful to give yourself and others a binary label and then use it to assume people's behaviors, desires, habits, etc.

mmmpop 9y ago

Strongly agree with this. I showed this thread to my coworkers and they sneered at the assumption that our lives are to be built around our jobs and the people at them. Don't get me wrong, we really enjoy each other and our jobs, but if our boss decided one day this was the new norm, we'd quit so fast our own necks would break running for the door...

cr0sh 9y ago
> I showed this thread to my coworkers and they sneered at the assumption that our lives are to be built around our jobs and the people at them. In your and your coworker's situation, and the parent's situation - this may be the case - but I'd argue that it is the exception for most people and most job situations. It is one of the driving arguments (stated or not) behind the resistance to the concept of "universal basic income" (UBI) and instead the rallying for "more jobs" (speaking from the perspective of the USA here, I don't really know what the situation is like elsewhere - I have feelings that it varies depending on the culture). I believe that most people do build their lives around their work, and the people at them. They work with these people for a long part of their weekdays; then they go home usually to a family (children, spouse, pets) and may not have much interaction with other people who are friends (maybe a phone chat occasionally - and perhaps the rare get together). They look at their coworkers as their peer and friend group. Unfortunately, that also brings all the baggage and strife with it such social situations can lead to. It is likely what fosters and aggravates the petty office politics and group dynamics - perhaps part of what leads to worse situations. This all can seem odd to people who are introverts and don't build their lives around their work environment, but it doesn't seem to be the norm. That's all my opinion, and I could very well be wrong, its just based on what I have seen and experienced over my decades of employment. For what it's worth, I'm fairly introverted myself, but I also try to understand my coworkers (specifically and in the general sense) and their views on work/life, which is why I have come to these conclusions (right or wrong as the case may be, I suppose).
- mmmpop 9y ago
  >> I'd argue that it is the exception for most people and most job situations. It probably is and I feel fortunate that I found a job that allows me to be what I consider human. I feel like the alternate situations that "force a family" upon an employee to be somewhat cruel, but I'm a fairly anti-social person for what it is worth. Maybe I mean "nonsocial"? I will leave that as an exercise for the reader. > I believe that most people do build their lives around their work, and the people at them. They work with these people for a long part of their weekdays; then they go home usually to a family (children, spouse, pets) and may not have much interaction with other people who are friends (maybe a phone chat occasionally - and perhaps the rare get together). They look at their coworkers as their peer and friend group. Oh yeah, the grind! I dropped out of college when I started to sense this was where my life was headed and if my former friend group is any indicator, I dodged the figurative bullet. > That's all my opinion, and I could very well be wrong, its just based on what I have seen and experienced over my decades of employment. You're totally right, I just reject it as the end-all-be-all and won't settle for such an outcome. Thanks for your point of view.

kayoone 9y ago

I don't know, i would see myself as fairly introverted but i like the team i am working with and having lunch with them together is usually fun. There is no force though, i don't have to do it. Some of my coworkers also became friends, so i hardly see it as "team building" but i guess it benefits the team too. You seem pretty isolated from your team, which probably makes you leave earlier than people who are well connected within the team, so it's clear why Founders encourage this. I worked remotely for a couple of years and now realized how much more i enjoy work when i have other developers around, otherwise i would lead a pretty lonely live.

Danihan 9y ago
>You seem pretty isolated from your team, which probably makes you leave earlier than people I become obsessed and enthralled with the work itself, sometimes to the point of wanting to work 12-16 hour days to solve deeper problems that are bothersome. Working short days has never been an issue for me. This is exactly what I mean by projection. You would want to leave early if you felt isolated. But I enjoy it and want to stay longer. >I worked remotely for a couple of years and now realized how much more i enjoy work when i have other developers around, otherwise i would lead a pretty lonely live. This is not "fairly introverted." What you are describing is a textbook example of "fairly extroverted." You enjoy working around others and begin to feel lonely otherwise. I generally don't, in either case.
- kayoone 9y ago
  By leaving earlier i meant the job as a whole, because on average people that tend to isolate themselves from the team are less invested in the vision of the product and the team, which is why founders usually do these crap events (which i hate too). Not saying this is the case for you, it's just what i've seen in the past. I am definitely not extroverted, i get nervous before meetings and team building events and they drain a lot of my energy and concentration during the day. It's just when working remotely for years, sometimes i didn't talk to anyone for days and that can get unhealthy after some time. I also just enjoy discussing technical issues with coworkers. Not saying you are doing it wrong, god forbid. In my early thirties now I definitely would not work 12-16hour days anymore as an employee without being a shareholder though.

gk1 9y ago

> "...any introvert there is surely wishing..." The founder whose idea this was is an introvert, and so are many others on the team, all of whom chose to work there knowing about this. It's not very useful to give yourself and others a binary label and then use it to assume people's behaviors, desires, habits, etc.