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[I am the cofounder of Holberton] it is working great for us. As you said we do take the financial risk on students not getting jobs. Education is so broken tod

[I am the cofounder of Holberton] it is working great for us. As you said we do take the financial risk on students not getting jobs. Education is so broken today: students get in debt and don't find jobs because too many universities are in the business of signing in students and not finding them a job :( hopefully we can show the way and we'll make this change. Purdue university is now offering this too, which is a good sign that things are changing. Honestly I think that this is going to become the norm simply because the current system is broken an unsustainable (US students debt is in Trillion USD! and cost of atudies is getting higher and higher -> more devt and more ppl who can't afford Education anymore) 10 years from now ppl will simply look back and laugh at today's system. There are two other important things that this model solves too: 0. There is no more financial barrier to high quality Education. Anyone can afford Holberton* 1. Colleges need to make sure that you are a fit to their system/culture/field. Today this is not the case so students are wasting time and money in programs they are likely to fail. By having this tuition model they will need to be transparent and make sure everyone succeed (*) we are in SF so cost of living is high. this is a pb for a lot of candidates. We are activally working on a solution.

treehau5 9y ago
> too many universities are in the business of signing in students and not finding them a job If you are a university in the "business of finding students a job" you are university'ing wrong.
- julien421 9y ago
  That is not exactly what I said :)
  - jlgosse 9y ago
    With the name treehau5 I expect there's some affiliation to Treehouse here
- throwawayjava 9y ago
  > If you are a university in the "business of finding students a job" you are university'ing wrong. Then everyone is university'ing wrong! Universities spend an enormous amount of time and money getting students jobs. Maintaining relationships with recruiters, developing alumni networks, and entire departments of full time staff dedicated to "career services". There's a solid critique of education programs that are overly sensitive to industry fads [1], but IMO universities and educators should definitely include "finding students a job" as an explicit curricular goal -- balanced, of course, with "ensuring students have a long and healthy career beyond that first job". [1] https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2005/12/29/the-perils-of-javaschools-2/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2005/12/29/the-perils-of-java...
  - muninn_ 9y ago
    Well, the problem is that universities are being co-opted into job training programs, when they shouldn't be. The cost of training people for jobs is being passed on to them through the university, from corporations. It shouldn't be that way. Finding a job should never be the main, or even a large part of attending college. Now, naturally that's not what is currently happening, but we need to work to avoid this as a long-term solution to job training.
    - dilemma 9y ago
      You want it to be one way but it's the other way.
      - muninn_ 9y ago
        Right. We're doing things the wrong way, and I'd like to see that changed.
    - ghaff 9y ago
      That seems unrealistic for the most part. No, most universities aren't optimized as trade schools focused on near-term employment prospects. And, you can certainly choose a university and major that, shall we say, sub-optimizes employment prospects. However, it's certainly the expectation of most people that going to university for four years is going to improve their employment prospects--often in a field directly related to their undergraduate study. And as someone else noted, schools absolutely put effort into relationships and programs that improve their graduates' job prospects.
- caconym_ 9y ago
  University is sold to kids as the thing they'll do after high school and before starting their careers if they want to be successful. There's a grain of truth to that too; I have heard that it's hard to get a tolerable job out of college these days but even harder without a degree. If that's how universities are positioning themselves, if they're opening their doors to students who are clearly not the best of the best and destined for academia and/or highly technical careers that demand high-level theoretical knowledge, then you bet your ass they should be teaching practical skills and helping students find jobs. Otherwise they're just taking (a lot of) money from kids who clearly don't know any better, and leaving them high and dry after graduation.
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csharpminor 9y ago
Unrelated question, but curious: why do your BART ads that say "I am a software engineer" have a fork bomb in faint text in the bottom-left corner?
gwbas1c 9y ago
But 17% of an entry-level job is HUUUUUGE for the student. If I paid that in my internships and entry-level jobs, I'd be in trouble. Granted, over the long run, it's a great deal! Just short-term, it's extremely expensive. Personally, I'd opt for a smaller payment that lasts longer, even if it means more money for you.

treehau5 9y ago

> too many universities are in the business of signing in students and not finding them a job If you are a university in the "business of finding students a job" you are university'ing wrong.

julien421 9y ago
That is not exactly what I said :)
- jlgosse 9y ago
  With the name treehau5 I expect there's some affiliation to Treehouse here
throwawayjava 9y ago
> If you are a university in the "business of finding students a job" you are university'ing wrong. Then everyone is university'ing wrong! Universities spend an enormous amount of time and money getting students jobs. Maintaining relationships with recruiters, developing alumni networks, and entire departments of full time staff dedicated to "career services". There's a solid critique of education programs that are overly sensitive to industry fads [1], but IMO universities and educators should definitely include "finding students a job" as an explicit curricular goal -- balanced, of course, with "ensuring students have a long and healthy career beyond that first job". [1] https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2005/12/29/the-perils-of-javaschools-2/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2005/12/29/the-perils-of-java...
- muninn_ 9y ago
  Well, the problem is that universities are being co-opted into job training programs, when they shouldn't be. The cost of training people for jobs is being passed on to them through the university, from corporations. It shouldn't be that way. Finding a job should never be the main, or even a large part of attending college. Now, naturally that's not what is currently happening, but we need to work to avoid this as a long-term solution to job training.
  - dilemma 9y ago
    You want it to be one way but it's the other way.
    - muninn_ 9y ago
      Right. We're doing things the wrong way, and I'd like to see that changed.
  - ghaff 9y ago
    That seems unrealistic for the most part. No, most universities aren't optimized as trade schools focused on near-term employment prospects. And, you can certainly choose a university and major that, shall we say, sub-optimizes employment prospects. However, it's certainly the expectation of most people that going to university for four years is going to improve their employment prospects--often in a field directly related to their undergraduate study. And as someone else noted, schools absolutely put effort into relationships and programs that improve their graduates' job prospects.
caconym_ 9y ago
University is sold to kids as the thing they'll do after high school and before starting their careers if they want to be successful. There's a grain of truth to that too; I have heard that it's hard to get a tolerable job out of college these days but even harder without a degree. If that's how universities are positioning themselves, if they're opening their doors to students who are clearly not the best of the best and destined for academia and/or highly technical careers that demand high-level theoretical knowledge, then you bet your ass they should be teaching practical skills and helping students find jobs. Otherwise they're just taking (a lot of) money from kids who clearly don't know any better, and leaving them high and dry after graduation.

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csharpminor 9y ago

Unrelated question, but curious: why do your BART ads that say "I am a software engineer" have a fork bomb in faint text in the bottom-left corner?

gwbas1c 9y ago

But 17% of an entry-level job is HUUUUUGE for the student. If I paid that in my internships and entry-level jobs, I'd be in trouble. Granted, over the long run, it's a great deal! Just short-term, it's extremely expensive. Personally, I'd opt for a smaller payment that lasts longer, even if it means more money for you.