6 ms·

That's sweet and all but the rest of us have to pay rent

wu-ikkyu 9y ago
There are ~23 empty homes for every homeless person in the US[1]. For those of us living in the US, have you ever wondered why we have "housing crises" and such high rents when we have such an absurdly high surplus of empty homes? [1]https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/a/22336 https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/a/22336
- lazerpants 9y ago
  From your source: So the answer is NO; 24 is a rather gross exaggeration of the number of homes available for sale/rent. Gotta read the source, not just cite it.
  - wu-ikkyu 9y ago
    Ditto my friend, which is why I used the word "empty" (meaning vacant) rather than "available for sale/rent". 13785000 / 610042 = 22.6 24 empty houses for each homeless American (assuming only the USA) seems like a reasonable estimate, especially since the meme is older than 3 Feb 2012.
- randomdata 9y ago
  The problem is those empty homes aren't located where you want to live. Among cities in the US, Flint, Michigan has the highest home vacancy rate. Coinciding with that surplus, the median rent is more than a couple of hundred dollars per month below the national median. If someone is feeling like there is a housing crisis in some part of the country, the obvious solution is to move to Flint, or another community with a similar surplus of housing and cheap rent. However, there is probably a good reason why they haven't already done so. They've done the math and have realized that while rent may be higher, that higher rent has much greater value (access to better jobs, lifestyle, environment, etc.) and is actually worth every penny.
  - wu-ikkyu 9y ago
    >that higher rent has much greater value (access to better jobs Indeed, and this is getting to the point that the parent and I are making. The same system which ideologically mandates maximum employment, is the same one maintaining the artificially inflated housing prices.
    - randomdata 9y ago
      But the economy always seeks equilibrium eventually. Rents are rising in places like San Francisco because it is trying to reach equilibrium with Flint. While it may take time to get there, eventually we should see rents reach a point where it is a better deal, or at least no worse of a deal, to live in Flint, even if the career opportunities are not as good. For instance, as a hypothetical, if you make $70k post-tax as a developer in SF, or $15k working part time at Mcdonalds in Flint, once your rent reaches about $5,000/month, you may actually be better off in Flint career-wise. But in fact, the median household income in SF is only $88k/year (pre-tax), which means that there are probably people already living in SF who aren't far off being better off moving to Flint for career reasons (not necessarily for the other reasons listed).
      - ocb 9y ago
        This seems like kind of an absurd oversimplification. Maybe what you're saying is true over geologic timescales but if SF suddenly had a large amount of vacant housing, rents wouldn't continue to increase regardless of what's happening economically in Flint.
        randomdata 9y ago
        Why would SF suddenly have a large amount of vacant housing that isn't there now, unless people lost interest in the city? A large surplus like that suggests that things have swing too far in the other direction. At that point, rents will decline to try and bring equilibrium back the other way, exactly like you see in Flint today.

There are ~23 empty homes for every homeless person in the US[1]. For those of us living in the US, have you ever wondered why we have "housing crises" and such high rents when we have such an absurdly high surplus of empty homes? [1]https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/a/22336 https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/a/22336

lazerpants 9y ago
From your source: So the answer is NO; 24 is a rather gross exaggeration of the number of homes available for sale/rent. Gotta read the source, not just cite it.
- wu-ikkyu 9y ago
  Ditto my friend, which is why I used the word "empty" (meaning vacant) rather than "available for sale/rent". 13785000 / 610042 = 22.6 24 empty houses for each homeless American (assuming only the USA) seems like a reasonable estimate, especially since the meme is older than 3 Feb 2012.
randomdata 9y ago
The problem is those empty homes aren't located where you want to live. Among cities in the US, Flint, Michigan has the highest home vacancy rate. Coinciding with that surplus, the median rent is more than a couple of hundred dollars per month below the national median. If someone is feeling like there is a housing crisis in some part of the country, the obvious solution is to move to Flint, or another community with a similar surplus of housing and cheap rent. However, there is probably a good reason why they haven't already done so. They've done the math and have realized that while rent may be higher, that higher rent has much greater value (access to better jobs, lifestyle, environment, etc.) and is actually worth every penny.
- wu-ikkyu 9y ago
  >that higher rent has much greater value (access to better jobs Indeed, and this is getting to the point that the parent and I are making. The same system which ideologically mandates maximum employment, is the same one maintaining the artificially inflated housing prices.
  - randomdata 9y ago
    But the economy always seeks equilibrium eventually. Rents are rising in places like San Francisco because it is trying to reach equilibrium with Flint. While it may take time to get there, eventually we should see rents reach a point where it is a better deal, or at least no worse of a deal, to live in Flint, even if the career opportunities are not as good. For instance, as a hypothetical, if you make $70k post-tax as a developer in SF, or $15k working part time at Mcdonalds in Flint, once your rent reaches about $5,000/month, you may actually be better off in Flint career-wise. But in fact, the median household income in SF is only $88k/year (pre-tax), which means that there are probably people already living in SF who aren't far off being better off moving to Flint for career reasons (not necessarily for the other reasons listed).
    - ocb 9y ago
      This seems like kind of an absurd oversimplification. Maybe what you're saying is true over geologic timescales but if SF suddenly had a large amount of vacant housing, rents wouldn't continue to increase regardless of what's happening economically in Flint.
      - randomdata 9y ago
        Why would SF suddenly have a large amount of vacant housing that isn't there now, unless people lost interest in the city? A large surplus like that suggests that things have swing too far in the other direction. At that point, rents will decline to try and bring equilibrium back the other way, exactly like you see in Flint today.