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Not sure if this is it but some guy did an AMA on reddit with a similar payment plan but it was really scummy. They took some percentage of your salary for a gi

Not sure if this is it but some guy did an AMA on reddit with a similar payment plan but it was really scummy. They took some percentage of your salary for a given number of years when you eventually landed a job. But there was no stipulation that the job needed to be in tech or anything. So the whole thing might be a total waste of time and you would still have to fork away a cut of your salary when you find a job as a kitchen hand or whatever.

oliwarner 9y ago
Tell me how this is different from the rest of the student loan industry. My student loan is until I've paid it all back, or I reach 65, or I die. It adds a top up to my income tax, taking 9% of everything over £17kpa earnt. It doesn't care that I've got a really good job, or that it's relevant to the courses I took. Or that I even finished my degree. It's just the same in that respect. Holberton takes a higher percentage, but earlier on and only for three years. When you're earning less. You might thing 17% is shitty but coming from low or no income, you're probably not going to notice it. Three years will fly by and by the fourth, you get a massive pay jump. I prefer Holberton's take to my up-to-48y lien.
- ProblemFactory 9y ago
  > Tell me how this is different from the rest of the student loan industry. My student loan is until I've paid it all back, or I reach 65, or I die. It adds a top up to my income tax, taking 9% of everything over £17kpa earnt. Student loan industry in the UK. In the US and most other places, income-based repayment is not a thing, the payments are due no matter how much or little you earn.
  - sp332 9y ago
    I don't think that's accurate. When I graduated I got a zillion papers in the mail for applying for various hardship deferments and payment options. And then there's this https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2012/06/07/income-based-repayment-everything-you-need-know https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2012/06/07/income-... which is explicitly income-based.
  - jfaat 9y ago
    Income-based repayments are definitely 'a thing' in the US.
  - bradleyjg 9y ago
    At least for now the US does have several income based repayment plans. The best one for most circumstances is PAYE (pay as you earn). It requires payments of 10% of disposable income, i.e. dollars earned after 150% of the poverty line, and the debt is discharged after 20 years of payments or 10 years while working for certain government or non-profit entities. This program is partly the result of regulatory rule making and so could be sharply curtailed should the President or his underlings wish to do so.
  - thatwebdude 9y ago
    This occurs mostly in private student loans vs. federal ones. Private offers even fewer options than the federally mandated ones provide.
ProblemFactory 9y ago
> But there was no stipulation that the job needed to be in tech or anything. So the whole thing might be a total waste of time and you would still have to fork away a cut of your salary when you find a job as a kitchen hand or whatever. But isn't it objectively less "scummy" than charging money up front, which most universities do? Then if you fail to find a good job after graduation, you are still responsible for the full amount regardless of your income. Some minimum threshold before the percentage is taken off would make sense - the "tax" would be insignificant income to the university but a high cost to someone working for minimum wage as a kitchen hand. But restricting it to tech is not that obvious. Every office job in the modern world benefits from a) having some sort of degree paper, and b) having some tech skills.
- throwawayjava 9y ago
  > But isn't it objectively less "scummy" than charging money up front, which most universities do? It entirely depends on the price and what you're getting for that price. I generally agree with you that the model is 1) interesting and 2) not at all scummy. But the cost-benefit on these coding schools always confuses me. The total cost of one of this certificate is probably something in the 30k-60k+ range assuming you're successful (location is SF -- and marketing print specifically mentions Google et al). That's just tuition, not cost of living. And that's for two 9 month project-based sessions. For reference, the average student loan debt is 37k for four years and an accredited diploma. Which, okay, might not be the full cost. But to be fair, you can DEFINITELY pay for college in 100% debt + weekend jobs/internships, and come out in the 20k-25k range. And that's total cost, with no scholarships, assuming you go to a second-tier state school or can live at home (ok, that skews total cost, but it's a very real option for many, many students!). IMO universities are the clear winner in this cost-benefit calculation. Hands down, no questions asked. You can double or triple major and have one or two very tenable backup careers if a tech bubble bursts. In addition to that, if you want, you'll have everything you would learn at a coding school. Plus some extra theory/systems knowledge that opens up the non-web-dev job market. Graduate school is an option if you want to go the research route. And, very likely, you'll have a much larger network of close-knit peers that includes not only coders but also managers, engineers, business types, doctors, lawyers, etc. Immigration becomes easier. You'll have some physics/chemistry/calculus knowledge as well as some econ knowledge if you choose the right courses. And so on. The problem is that a lot of people don't take full advantage of university while they're there, or choose universities that don't align with their goals. I think coding schools are weird in this respect -- IMO they tend to be pretty expensive for what you're getting, but maybe the target clientele wouldn't thrive in a university environment or don't want to take 4 years to get a holistic education. So again, not at all scummy! But also IMO definitely not a better deal than the traditional route.
rorykoehler 9y ago
Tbf 17% of a kitchen hand wage vs 17% of a software wage is a huge difference. The school is incentivised to find their students good work and therefore train them all in order to build their own reputation. That doesn't sound scummy at all.
BearGoesChirp 9y ago
I'm still not sure that's bad. With this plan, the school would much rather you land a job getting $50/hour instead of $7.50 per hour because they make more money. I can think of a few ways that could make this better (such as a sliding scale that goes lower if you are making less), but overall the incentives seem to be aligned with them landing you a good job, and getting you a good pay scale early on (since they only get paid from your first 3 years).
toomanybeersies 9y ago
Sounds like what happens in New Zealand in regards to student loans. Basically, 8% of my pay goes to paying off my student loan (but only on earnings above ~$20,000). I can't pay less than this, it's taken from my payroll like tax. Not really scummy at all in my opinion.
- learc83 9y ago
  The US has basically this exact same program. For a single person, it's currently 10% of your income over $18k.

oliwarner 9y ago

Tell me how this is different from the rest of the student loan industry. My student loan is until I've paid it all back, or I reach 65, or I die. It adds a top up to my income tax, taking 9% of everything over £17kpa earnt. It doesn't care that I've got a really good job, or that it's relevant to the courses I took. Or that I even finished my degree. It's just the same in that respect. Holberton takes a higher percentage, but earlier on and only for three years. When you're earning less. You might thing 17% is shitty but coming from low or no income, you're probably not going to notice it. Three years will fly by and by the fourth, you get a massive pay jump. I prefer Holberton's take to my up-to-48y lien.

ProblemFactory 9y ago
> Tell me how this is different from the rest of the student loan industry. My student loan is until I've paid it all back, or I reach 65, or I die. It adds a top up to my income tax, taking 9% of everything over £17kpa earnt. Student loan industry in the UK. In the US and most other places, income-based repayment is not a thing, the payments are due no matter how much or little you earn.
- sp332 9y ago
  I don't think that's accurate. When I graduated I got a zillion papers in the mail for applying for various hardship deferments and payment options. And then there's this https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2012/06/07/income-based-repayment-everything-you-need-know https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2012/06/07/income-... which is explicitly income-based.
- jfaat 9y ago
  Income-based repayments are definitely 'a thing' in the US.
- bradleyjg 9y ago
  At least for now the US does have several income based repayment plans. The best one for most circumstances is PAYE (pay as you earn). It requires payments of 10% of disposable income, i.e. dollars earned after 150% of the poverty line, and the debt is discharged after 20 years of payments or 10 years while working for certain government or non-profit entities. This program is partly the result of regulatory rule making and so could be sharply curtailed should the President or his underlings wish to do so.
- thatwebdude 9y ago
  This occurs mostly in private student loans vs. federal ones. Private offers even fewer options than the federally mandated ones provide.

ProblemFactory 9y ago

> But there was no stipulation that the job needed to be in tech or anything. So the whole thing might be a total waste of time and you would still have to fork away a cut of your salary when you find a job as a kitchen hand or whatever. But isn't it objectively less "scummy" than charging money up front, which most universities do? Then if you fail to find a good job after graduation, you are still responsible for the full amount regardless of your income. Some minimum threshold before the percentage is taken off would make sense - the "tax" would be insignificant income to the university but a high cost to someone working for minimum wage as a kitchen hand. But restricting it to tech is not that obvious. Every office job in the modern world benefits from a) having some sort of degree paper, and b) having some tech skills.

throwawayjava 9y ago
> But isn't it objectively less "scummy" than charging money up front, which most universities do? It entirely depends on the price and what you're getting for that price. I generally agree with you that the model is 1) interesting and 2) not at all scummy. But the cost-benefit on these coding schools always confuses me. The total cost of one of this certificate is probably something in the 30k-60k+ range assuming you're successful (location is SF -- and marketing print specifically mentions Google et al). That's just tuition, not cost of living. And that's for two 9 month project-based sessions. For reference, the average student loan debt is 37k for four years and an accredited diploma. Which, okay, might not be the full cost. But to be fair, you can DEFINITELY pay for college in 100% debt + weekend jobs/internships, and come out in the 20k-25k range. And that's total cost, with no scholarships, assuming you go to a second-tier state school or can live at home (ok, that skews total cost, but it's a very real option for many, many students!). IMO universities are the clear winner in this cost-benefit calculation. Hands down, no questions asked. You can double or triple major and have one or two very tenable backup careers if a tech bubble bursts. In addition to that, if you want, you'll have everything you would learn at a coding school. Plus some extra theory/systems knowledge that opens up the non-web-dev job market. Graduate school is an option if you want to go the research route. And, very likely, you'll have a much larger network of close-knit peers that includes not only coders but also managers, engineers, business types, doctors, lawyers, etc. Immigration becomes easier. You'll have some physics/chemistry/calculus knowledge as well as some econ knowledge if you choose the right courses. And so on. The problem is that a lot of people don't take full advantage of university while they're there, or choose universities that don't align with their goals. I think coding schools are weird in this respect -- IMO they tend to be pretty expensive for what you're getting, but maybe the target clientele wouldn't thrive in a university environment or don't want to take 4 years to get a holistic education. So again, not at all scummy! But also IMO definitely not a better deal than the traditional route.

rorykoehler 9y ago

Tbf 17% of a kitchen hand wage vs 17% of a software wage is a huge difference. The school is incentivised to find their students good work and therefore train them all in order to build their own reputation. That doesn't sound scummy at all.

BearGoesChirp 9y ago

I'm still not sure that's bad. With this plan, the school would much rather you land a job getting $50/hour instead of $7.50 per hour because they make more money. I can think of a few ways that could make this better (such as a sliding scale that goes lower if you are making less), but overall the incentives seem to be aligned with them landing you a good job, and getting you a good pay scale early on (since they only get paid from your first 3 years).

toomanybeersies 9y ago

Sounds like what happens in New Zealand in regards to student loans. Basically, 8% of my pay goes to paying off my student loan (but only on earnings above ~$20,000). I can't pay less than this, it's taken from my payroll like tax. Not really scummy at all in my opinion.

learc83 9y ago
The US has basically this exact same program. For a single person, it's currently 10% of your income over $18k.